Depression and Suicide in Seniors and Caregivers: Warning Signs, Prevention, and Hope with Frank King - Episode 216

In this episode, host Diane Carbo, RN, sits down with Frank King—a comedian, 14-time TEDx speaker, and suicide prevention advocate who uses "dark humor" and his own lived experience with chronic suicidality to break the silence around life's hardest truths.

This is not an easy conversation, but it is one that could save a life.

🌟 Episode Highlights: What You'll Learn

• The Hidden Caregiver Crisis: Why a staggering 63% of family caregivers become seriously ill or pass away before the person they are caring for.
• The Power of Vulnerability: How Frank transitioned from a 25-year comedy career to a suicide prevention advocate, learning firsthand what the barrel of a gun tastes like after losing everything in the 2010 recession.
• Counterintuitive Warning Signs: Why a sudden, unexplainable shift from deep depression to happiness is actually one of the most dangerous red flags of suicide.
• Scripting the Hard Conversations: Exact phrases you can use to safely confront a loved one if you suspect they are struggling.
• Emerging Treatments & Hope: A deep dive into how treatments like Ketamine, Psilocybin, and MDMA are altering the landscape of treatment-resistant depression and saving lives.

📋 Podcast Outline & Timestamps

• Welcome & Introduction to the hidden crisis of senior and caregiver depression.
• The staggering economic and physical toll on family caregivers.
• Frank’s origin story: From a 9-year-old class clown to 2,629 consecutive nights on the stand-up comedy road.
• The 2010 bankruptcy, a near-fatal moment, and turning pain into a speaking career.
• Why the Baby Boomer generation and older adults are uniquely vulnerable to isolation and depression.
• Crucial Signs to Watch For: Personal hygiene changes, sleep disruptions, and giving away prized possessions.
• Diane shares a deeply personal story about her sister, chronic pain, and suicide.
• The 988 Lifeline and how to ask the terrifying but necessary question: "Do you have a plan?"
• The rising concerns over solo agers, a lack of youth workforce, and the realities of medical aid in dying.
• Turning the tide: Diane and Frank discuss their personal success with Ketamine treatments for chronic pain and depression.
• Real-life stories of impact: A construction worker saved on a job site, and the famous survival story of Kevin Hines.
• Closing thoughts: Where to find Frank ("The Mental Health Comedian") and a reminder to be gentle with yourself.

💬 Words of Wisdom from the Episode

"I’m so comfortable in my darkness, I can sit comfortably with you in yours."

— Frank King (quoting Brené Brown)

"To the caregivers listening today: if you're struggling, overwhelmed, or feeling alone, please know that asking for help is not a weakness. Your mental health matters, too."

— Diane Carbo, RN

If this conversation helped you, please share it with other caregivers, families, and friends. You never know whose life you might save just by starting the conversation. 💜

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🚨 Emergency Resources Mentioned

If you or a loved one are in distress or having thoughts of suicide, please know you are not alone.

• Dial or Text 988 to reach the Suicide & Crisis Lifeline (Available 24/7).

Suicide Prevention Speaker

Professional services. Contact us today!

Podcast Episode Transcript

Diane: Welcome to Caregiver Relief, where we help caregivers, patients, and families navigate the healthcare system with knowledge, compassion, and hope. I'm your host, Diane Carbo, RN. Today's episode focuses on the growing and often hidden crisis, depression and suicide among seniors and family caregivers.

As our loved ones age, many face loss, isolation, chronic illness, pain, and declining independence. At the same time, family caregivers are often overwhelmed, exhausted, emotionally drained, and quietly struggling themselves. When both seniors and caregivers are living under this kind of emotional strain, the risk for depression and even suicidal thoughts can increase dramatically.

Joining us today is Frank King, a comedian, TEDx speaker, a suicide prevention advocate who uses humor to help people talk about some of life's hardest truths.

Frank openly shares his own lived experience with depression and what he calls chronic suicidality. Today, he'll help us understand how to recognize warning signs, start difficult conversations, and support both our loved ones and our- selves.

This is not an easy conversation, but it is one that could save a life.

Diane: Frank, thank you so much for joining me today. This is totally a topic that nobody ever wants to discuss, and the fact that you can use humor to talk about depression and suicide, interests me because I'm a nurse, I have a dark sense of humor, and I can laugh at many things that people would be appalled at.

It's, okay, you found a way to use humor to talk about depression and suicide. What led you to make this your life's work?

Frank: Before we go any farther I'll tell you something else people don't talk about is the, caregiving economy, the billions of dollars in unpaid caregiving.

Diane: It's actually- It's- ... $1.1 trillion

Frank: Whoa

Diane: a year of unpaid care. Yes.

Frank: Yeah.

Diane: Yes.

Frank: And I have a speaker that I coach who talks about caregiving, and, she said that she saw a study that, 70% of people over 70 who are caregiving for someone die before the person they're caregiving for.

Diane: It's 63% of family caregivers become seriously ill or die before- the person they are caring for. Now, I want you to know, 20 years ago it was 50%. And I am telling you with what is going on with our medical delivery system right now, it's gonna be 100%, because the government has cut down, cut benefits, for rehab. they have cut, the, so many things that the family caregiver is, everything's passed on down to them, and they're expected to provide care once provided by professional healthcare providers, and it's getting ugly.

And that's why I'm worried. that's why we're having this conversation today. Because we have seniors, the highest rate of, suicide and homicide is growing in the elderly population for those over 80. there is a study that shows that, men over 80 that are providing care for their wife over a period of time become hopeless and helpless, and, decide to kill their wife and to kill themselves.

And that's a frightening, statistic, I think too.

Frank: Well, as my mother would say, on that happy note. That's, She had a dark sense of humor as well. I started comedy in the fourth grade. I was nine years old. I told a joke, the kids laughed. The teacher was hysterical. She excused herself to go to the teachers' lounge, she was laughing so hard.

And at that moment, at nine years old, I thought, "I'm gonna be a stand-up comedian." Years later, I saw Mrs. Dark, my fourth-grade teacher, at the grocery store, the Winn-Dixie. I said, "Mrs. Dark, why did you excuse yourself to go to the ladies' room, to go to the teachers' lounge?" She said, "Frank, I was laughing so hard I was afraid you would misinterpret that and break your heart."

Then she said, "What are you doing now for a living?" I said, "Stand-up comedy." She said, "Duh." So that's how I got started. I did the senior talent show. Nobody had ever done stand-up before at the senior high school talent show, and I won. Of course, I beat the accordion player and the folk dancers. Not a big victory

but still, a victory. And then moved to San Diego with an insurance company. The insurance company shipped me to San Diego. I started in Raleigh, then an opening came up in San Diego, and that was the beginning of the end of my insurance career because there was a branch of the world-famous Comedy Store up on Sunset in San Diego.

Diane: Yes.

Frank: My first open mic night, April 1st, '84. Halfway through my set I heard a voice inside my head say, "You're home." Whoa. 18 months later I said to my girlfriend, now my wife of 38 years, "I'm, going on the road to be a professional comedian. Do you wanna come along for the ride?" Figuring she'd go, "Heck no."

And she goes, "Yeah." So we gave up the apartment and our jobs, and we were on the road together for 2,629 nights in a row non-stop, a little over seven years.

Diane: Oh, my Lord.

Frank: Yeah. And then the, comedy club boom busted. But my act was clean, so I jumped to the corporate comedy side of things after dinner, after lunch.

The rubber chicken circuit, as they call it.

Diane: Yeah.

Frank: And that, that worked until 2010 when the recession, you know,'08, '09, '10 hit and we, people stopped booking any kind of speaker. And we lost everything in a Chapter 7 bankruptcy, and that's when I learned what the barrel of my gun tasted like, literally.

I say to the audience, spoiler alert: I didn't pull the trigger," which gets a nervous laugh. And I say, "No, you're supposed to laugh. That's the idea." A friend of mine

Diane: Yeah, exactly

Frank: a friend of mine last year came up. He thought he'd be funny. "Hey, man, how come you didn't pull the trigger?" I said, "Hey, man, could you try to sound slightly less disappointed?"

So that's where the humor is in the topic. Not jokes, nothing to joke about.

Diane: Yeah.

Frank: But funny personal anecdotes,

Diane: Yeah, absolutely.

Frank: 2011-ish, I'd always wanted to make a living and a difference beyond the 45 minutes of endorphins from a comedy club set. But I could never figure out what I had to teach anybody.

So a friend of mine, and pay attention closely if you're thinking about becoming a keynote speaker, this is a valuable piece of information. A friend of mine named Judy Carter wrote a book. It's called The Message of You: Turn Your Life into a Money-Making Speaking Career. So she gave me the book and said, "Frank, you're smart.

You'll figure it out." I went into the book, thinking I got nothing, and about halfway through I thought, Diane, I thought, "Wait a minute." There are more nuts in my family than in a squirrel turd. I'm a four-time suicide loss survivor, one-time suicide attempt survivor. I have two mental illnesses. I could keynote on suicide prevention if I got some training.

So I have several certifications. And my second thought, Diane, was, wait a minute, who's gonna take me seriously after two and a half decades of comedy? My wife suggested a TEDx talk, and I said famously, "What's a TEDx talk?" Just so happened I got an application from a TEDx in Canada that week. I filled it out, I got the audition, I got it.

Diane: Wow.

Frank: And then two more events saw my TEDx and contacted me and said, "Do you have any more mental health TED Talks in you?" I said, "Oh, yeah." And on July 4th this year, I'm doing my 14th TEDx talk. All of them have something to do with mental health, mental illness, suicide prevention. So it's a, my brand is the mental health comedian.

That's how I got to, that's how I got to right here today.

Diane: Well, when I read your portfolio or your profile, I said, I have to have this man on. I have to talk because, it's a topic nobody wants to discuss. I too have had, two family members, complete suicide. I had a cousin when I was, 20, he was 18, that, took his own life.

So I'm familiar with suicide and, I've worked senior behavioral health and I also know about people that have attempted unsuccessfully, attempted suicide and were in the hospital. So it's a difficult subject but it's one that everybody would choose to ignore if they could.

Frank: Yes.

Diane: But I'm like, we can't do that. We have to talk about this. thank you for, bringing some sunlight to a dark, dark subject.

Frank: Well, and you know what happens when I'm on stage doing a keynote, Diane? My job is to, I'm not there to prevent suicide. I'm there to enable the audience

Diane: Yes

Frank: to prevent suicide.

Diane: Yes.

Frank: And I'm there to be vulnerable. As a man, men don't often talk about these sorts of things.

Diane: Yes.

Frank: and when I'm vulnerable, Brene Brown says vulnerability is a superpower. As a speaker, I believe that. she also said, and I've said this in many ways, but not as eloquently as she did. She said, "I'm so comfortable in my darkness, I can sit comfortably with you in yours."

So that's my job is to, yeah, to give them permission to give voice to their feelings and experiences surrounding depression, thoughts of suicide.

And when I get to the end, I do a general Q&A. Before I do that, I say, "Look, we're going to just general Q&A. And when I'm done, if you have a question you want to ask, a story you want to tell, and you don't want to do it in front of everybody, I'll hang out another 30, 45 minutes and take them individually."

And there's always a line, sometimes two people, sometimes 10.

Diane: Yeah.

Frank: And most of the conversations begin, "I've never told anybody this." Yeah. Yeah, I get that a lot.

Diane: Yep. I have people tell me, things that they say they've never told anybody else because I, too, have that dark side, and I don't think of it as I'm sharing my dark side with somebody else that also may have issues.

But I like that perspective, I really do. and, now my concern is, and that's why I wanted to I contacted you, is we're seeing a rising rate of depression and suicide among older adults. Why are seniors particularly vulnerable?

Frank: As you and I talked about off the air, there's, aging and there are health challenges.

Diane: Yeah. Yeah.

Frank: Often either caregiving for a spouse or they, the spouse has passed away.

Diane: Yeah.

Frank: And they're very lonely. There's a, kind of a, an epidemic of lonely.

Diane: Yes.

Frank: And for those of us in the baby boom generation, I'm 69, the rate is higher, some people think because my generation was the generation that helped stop the Vietnam War.

Diane: Yeah.

Frank: And a lot of those people thought, "I'm going to do great things with my life." And then they get to retirement age looking back and thinking, "Well, you know, I sold insurance all those years, but I never really did anything to change the world again." And it can be depressing knowing that, your time is nigh and,

Diane: Yeah

Frank: you didn't change the world.

Diane: that's depressing

Frank: It is. And I often think, Diane, if I had not chosen to do stand-up comedy full time

Diane: Yes

Frank: I was actually, my first thoughts of suicide are wrapped around... I have a talk, a TEDx talk, it's on YouTube, called Suicide: The Secret of My Success, Dead Man Talking.

And it was January of '84. I was married to a lovely woman, but we didn't belong together, had nothing in common. But you know what they say, Diane, opposites attract. She was pregnant, I wasn't. and I was working in the insurance business for her father's company. Great business, I just hated it with a purple passion.

And because my wife at the time did not want me to be doing comedy, I was not going to open mic night, which is where I thought I belonged.

Diane: Yeah.

Frank: So in January of '84, I had the thought, "Why don't you just kill yourself?" And my second thought was very empowering. Now wait a minute, what if I quit my job, divorce my wife, tried comedy?

If it works, great. If it doesn't, shoot, I can still kill myself. That's how I got into comedy, because I was If I stayed put, I was gonna kill myself.

Diane: Yeah. Yeah.

Frank: So looking back at 69, I think, I don't think I would be here had I not chosen to do what I believed I was born to do.

Diane: Yeah.

Frank: Or if I was here, I'd be so depressed that I didn't make that choice way back when.

Diane: Yeah.

Frank: you know, it's tough looking back on your life if you don't your potential.

Diane: Yes. Yes. I just turned 73, and I have treatment-resistant depression that I found. I go for ketamine treatments, which has really helped me so much. But I actually do my website, and do these podcasts because I need something relevant to do.

I too wanted to change the world and I didn't do that. I might have changed somebody's path, along the way when I provided care for them. But, so I do this now just because, I need something to do. It keeps me out of trouble, it keeps me active, and I'm helping others, and that justifies my existence to me

Frank: and people ask me occasionally because telling a story over and over, 'cause it's, I mean, when my great aunt passed away, my mother and I found her, and I'll spare you the gory details.

Diane: Yeah.

Frank: But I was four years old and I screamed for days.

Diane: Oh.

Frank: And people ask me, "Does telling your story over and over trigger you?" and I said, "No, you misunderstand. It's very therapeutic because of that line that forms after the presentation." Or I get the... I did a couple of keynotes on, Fort Irwin. It's the National Army Training Center, just off the Interstate 10, California, and I did two presentations. About three months later, I got a, DM in LinkedIn from the base psychologist whom I'd met. I'd done his podcast.

And he said, "Frank, a soldier walked in here this morning and said flat out, 'I'm depressed and I'm suicidal, and I'm here because Frank King said I had to tell somebody.'" So that's what keeps me going, gets me out of bed in the morning, stories like that.

Diane: Yes. Oh, they would. They would. Yes. What are some warning signs of depression or suicidal thinking in that seniors or their families may overlook or mistake as normal aging?

Frank: Yes. my favorite, if you can use that term with sign of depression, my top three or four, they eat too much or they cannot eat.

Diane: Yeah.

Frank: They sleep too much or they cannot sleep.

Diane: Yeah.

Frank: they have trouble getting out of bed in the morning.

Diane: Yeah.

Frank: So if they're working age, they often late for work. However, oddly, in the afternoon they rally like they're a different person. And one that you can observe visually, they tend to let their personal hygiene go.

You know, as long as you've known them, they've been pretty well put together.

Diane: Yeah.

Frank: But the last couple of weeks, hair not quite so clean, clothes kind of dirty. It may be because they're having trouble getting out of bed, simply getting out of bed, run a load of wash, take a shower. So those are very common, and obviously one you can observe visually.

Diane: Yeah.

Frank: signs of depression, I'm sorry, signs of suicide, there are obvious signs. They're googling suicide or how to die by suicide.

Diane: Yeah.

Frank: They are, suicide appears in their writing, their music, anything they do that's creative. They're getting their affairs in order. Because, especially if they're giving away prized possessions, because they wanna make sure the possessions go to the people they want them to go to when they're gone.

Diane: That's right.

Frank: And here's a counterintuitive one that a lot of people miss, and it's I think it's very dangerous, and I've met people who had an experience with a loved one who had done this and then died by suicide. They have been depressed for a long time, and now they're happy for no apparent reason, and you're happy because, Lord, they're happy.

Diane: Yeah.

Frank: However, they may be happy because they've chosen time, place, and method, and they know the pain is coming to an end, which brings me to a point. Oftentimes when somebody famous dies who's got everything to live for, apparently.

Diane: Yes.

Frank: My friends, family, they Facebook message me, they text me, "Why would somebody like that with everything to live for want to die?"

Diane: Yeah.

Frank: And my response is, there's a good chance that they didn't wanna die. I didn't wanna die.

Diane: Yeah

Frank: I just wanted to end the pain.

Diane: The end the pain. Yes. Yes. Yes. I have a younger sister. She would've been 65 last week. We share the same birthday. We're seven years apart. And, I had a cousin call me because my sister, doesn't talk to me.

I'm the bossy older sister that every, you know, know-it-all, and because I'm a nurse. My mom died when we were young, so I was the mother figure, and so that's always had an impact on my relationship with my siblings. My cousin calls me and says, "Hey, Nancy's, planning her end of life, stuff.

She's getting her paperwork in order. She's buying

Frank: Oh

Diane: a lot, a cemetery lot." And I said, I'm gonna call my niece and see what's going on." So she's my niece is her only child, and my niece says to me, "I don't think she's dying, Aunt Diane. I don't know what's going on." And I said,"Well, you know, I'll call your mom."

Nancy says to me, "It's none of your business what I'm doing." And I knew instinctively that she was planning on killing herself. And I told my niece, "You know, your mom" First of all, my sister had chronic pain. She had a similar condition to my brother, but it was in her abdomen, and she was on as much pain medication as she could be but, your body builds up a tolerance and you need more.

So she would end up in the ER, and I guess she was a frequent flyer to the ER. And she comes and, they finally told her, "We can't do anything for you anymore." And she took that as she was dying. And I said to her, "Nancy, you're not dying. We have to work at looking at other alternative methods for you to have, relieve your pain."

And, she was mad at me because how dare I say she's not dying. So I told my niece, "You gotta watch your mom. I'm worried." a year later she did just that. She had her obituary written. She had everything. And, she, killed herself, and, my brother, who felt that something was up, my, he's, 13 months younger than I am, called my niece and says, "Hey, I'm worried about your mom.

Would you go over and check on her?" And I knew right then when Nicole calls me and says, "I'm worried about mom." And I thought, I said to her, "Make sure you go with your husband." I was angry with my brother that he didn't go or have the police do a wellness check

Frank: Yep

Diane: 'cause she shouldn't have had to find him, but, or find my sister.

But, and that was just almost a year. It's a little over a year ago that happened. But she felt isolated. She was in pain all the time, and, she didn't feel like she was getting the support she needed. But when I reached out, she didn't want any help from me, which makes me feel bad in itself.

But, it is what it is.

Frank: Well, and I tell my audiences, "If you suspect someone's suicidal, go with your gut. Go with your in-" Oh, boy.

Diane: Yes. Yeah.

Frank: Go with your intuition. And they ask me, what do you say to someone you believe is suicidal? What do you say? Are you having thoughts of suicide?"

And if they say no, we've already covered the signs symptoms. If they say yes, then you say simply, "Do you have a plan?" And if they have a plan, and it's detailed, time, place, and method then you need to do your best to get them to a mental health facility. At the very least, dial 988, the Suicide Prevention lifeline and and text line.

Diane: Yes.

Frank: Now, I've never read this in any of the, courses. I've never... Nobody's ever taught me this. I've never seen it in a course on suicide prevention. A psychologist and I came up with it. What if they have a plan, Diane but it's not particularly detailed? What would you do? the psychiatrist and I decided I would say to them, or he would say to them, "Okay, tell me something.

How are you gonna kill yourself?" And if they say no, then you say, "Okay, tell me why not." Make them give voice to whatever's keeping them here, because something is keeping them here, otherwise you wouldn't be having this conversation. Could be spouse children, parents, pets, religion. Who knows? And then try to leverage that to keep them around a little longer.

Diane: Yeah. I belong to an organization called Exit International, and it's an organization that is promoting, They... Now they call it medical aid in dying, but it's euthanasia. And, I joined it after my son completed suicide, because I wanted to. 'Cause I had joined it beforehand but hadn't been an active member.

But when... The way my son did it, if he had just told me he was in this state of mind, I would have taken an application, we would have gone to Switzerland, and I would have helped him, do. Because he was in a lot of pain, and he was just tired and worn out. I get that. But After that, I actually, took an application for Dignitas for myself because I have chronic pain.

Now my son's been dead 15 years this September. So I went through the process, and This is, The process for Dignitas is that you have to have a psychiatrist evaluate you for end of life decisions. Now, here in the States, trying to get I must have called I was living in Philadelphia.

I must have called 100 psychiatrists to ask if they would assess me for my ability to make end of life decisions for myself. I couldn't get anybody. They're all afraid to be sued, all of that. So I ended up finding a forensic psychologist, and he absolutely did the he gave me tests, did everything.

And, at the time he said, I didn't have a plan at this time. I just wanted a way out if I needed, I don't wanna become a burden. So many of us don't. No. I didn't wanna become, I didn't want to have, people worry about me, but I wanted to be able to, end my life in a way, and I know people find this offensive, but I wanted to take things into my own hands when the time came.

And I bought the Peaceful Pill handbook that, they tell you all the ways you can complete suicide. Now, that was 15 years ago. I still have the, test for it, all the results from my forensic, psychologist. And, he said, I was just weary. I, and I was. I was weary, lost my mom, had a divorce.

You know, my son was going through terrible things. I have PTSD dealing with the military, trying to get him proper care, 'cause I'm a fierce advocate. So it was really hard. But, I'm worried now because, medical aid in dying is moving forward in this country, and in a way it's good, but when I see what's happening in Canada with it, I'm very frightened.

But, and I'm worried now, Frank, because we have so much pressure put on the family caregiver, and we don't have enough youth to help take care of our seniors. And I worry about the solo agers and the childless couples as they age because if you have a family caregiver, you may or may not have someone to take care of you.

It depends. But, the solo agers and the childless couples, are really struggling, and I worry about that because isolation is very real.

Frank: Yes. Well, and, on something you said, I have a piece of advice, for elderly folks. And I didn't realize I was elderly at 69. I was watching one of those drug commercials, you know, on television on my...

I was streaming, HBO and the, with commercials, and it came on of some, drug. And it said, they said, "elderly," and they gave an age. And I thought, "Oh my God, I'm elderly." So I just, I didn't realize. I knew I was old. I didn't know I was elderly. but if there's someone elderly in your life and they are struggling, I believe, and I tell parents to do this with their young people as well.

Join the conversation in the person's head. Rather than say you have rather than saying, "You got so much to live for," which as someone who lives with chronic suicidality, that doesn't put a dent in it. say this. Say, "Look, I know it's crossed your mind. I'm guessing it's crossed your mind that you are a burden to us, and in no uncertain terms would you ever be a burden to us.

And I bet it's also crossed your mind that we'd be better off without you, and in no uncertain terms would we ever be better off without you." Because that's, chances are, what they're thinking.

Diane: Yeah. Well, you know, we've lost our sense of community. when I was growing up, we had family gatherings.

I can remember, I've mentioned this often, that I can remember my great grandfather receiving last rites seven times. I just say he was too ornery. Even God didn't want him. But he and I can remember my little aunts bringing out their tea service, my sister, my grandma's sisters, and everybody crying and all upset and talking.

And, so I grew up in an era where, you expected to take care of your elderly. You expected to be part of a community, and you were never seen as a burden. And we no longer have that. People, the, family unit is all over the world right now, and, you don't have that sense of community, and I think we've really lost that.

Frank: Well, there are countries where they still, they have three generations in a household. They're looking after their elders

Diane: Yes. yep

Frank: it's, you know, we're, here we tend to be scattered to the three, to the seven winds. And also, warehouse the elderly

Diane: Yeah. yes.

And that's, I can tell you that the westernized, I worked in a nursing home in Philadelphia, or outside of Philadelphia, that took Koreans. And the whole facility ended up being full of Korean families. And I will tell you, the embarrassment and the hurt it caused the family, elderly s- family member that was placed.

They were ashamed. They were embarrassed. They were upset that they, their families put them in this nursing home. They, this was not their culture. It was not the way it should be, and they would admonish their younger generations, the children and their grandchildren, at how terrible they were that they weren't honoring their elderly.

Frank: Yeah

Diane: and that's a very, that's very real. And we've lost that. And many cultures I worked for, a long-term care organization that actually had nursing homes in Japan. And that shocked me.

Frank: Yeah, I agree.

Diane: Yeah. And it's just, and Japan now is working on, They're way ahead of us as far as how they're helping their elderly, but they're not being very successful.

They're using caregiver robots. They're trying how, figure out how that can work with their seniors. But I just read an article a few, months ago about a Japanese women, older Japanese women are actually committing crimes to be thrown in jail so they have three hots and a cot.

Frank: Wow.

Diane: So that was astonishing to me.

Yep, yep. Yeah.

Frank: Wow.

Diane: So I think, globally our, the low birth rate is going to impact every generation after the baby boomers. there's not gonna be anybody to care for them, and there's going to be, and everybody's looking at this as something that, it's okay because we're saving the planet.

Well, all we're doing is going into extinction ourselves.

Frank: Yes, and, we're, regardless of your political party, we are currently throwing people out of the country, many of whom provide the services you're talking about.

Diane: Yeah. Yeah.

Frank: And, and also, every time I'm in an Uber with somebody from another country, I always ask them, from either Africa or somewhere in South Central America, I go, "Hey, you got any kids?"

Three. "Sweet. Taxpayers

Diane: Yes

Frank: and labor."

Diane: Yes.

Frank: "Now could you have some more?"

Diane: Yes. Yes. I just met a woman who has eight children, and she's a millennial. And I was like, "Oh my God." I said, "God bless you, and I hope you encourage your kids to have kids." We need that labor. We ... They're our ... That's our work our youth are our workforce, and they're our tax base, and we need that.

So

Frank: Yes. Hispanics have a higher birth rate than Mormons.

Diane: Wow.

Frank: Yeah. So we need, the workforce. We and plus, you know

Diane: Yeah

Frank: I say to them, "Look, your children will be paying my social security here shortly when they

Diane: Yes

Frank: begin working and paying taxes."

Diane: Yes. Frank, one of the biggest fears families have is saying the wrong thing that, to a family member who's depressed or who may be suicidal.

How can we start a conversation with somebody that we're worried about?

Frank: If they mention they're depressed or if you think they're depressed

Diane: Yeah

Frank: let's start with what you don't say.

Diane: Okay. And I do this in, I do this Oh, that would be good

Frank: I do this in my keynote. What you don't say is, "Pull yourself up by your bootstraps.

Turn that frown upside down." My personal favorite, "Have you tried fish oil?" Which at which point I go from suicidal to homicidal.

Diane: Yep.

Frank: Yep.

Diane: Yeah.

Frank: It's, they mean

Diane: Yes. Yes.

Frank: so I would say, if I thought they were depressed or they said they were depressed, I would say, "Look, I'm here for you, and I mean it.

I know that depression's a mental illness. You're not lazy, crazy, or self-absorbed. I know that depression is a mental illness. Here's the good news. With time and treatment, things will get better. I'll take the time. I'll help you get the treatment." And then you have to ask the are you having thoughts of suicide question.

By the way, ketamine, one of my coaching clients has written two books on ketamine. He's an anesthesiologist, and he's actually used ketamine to treat people with, with drug-resistant depression, and also suicidality, to great effect.

Diane: Yep. It's very great effect. in fact, the research that my son has a ketamine clinic, my youngest son.

Frank: Oh.

Diane: And he's a nurse anesthetist, and he opened the clinic up in honor of his brother because this was a treatment for his condition, treat, chronic regional pain syndrome, or RSD, reflex sympathetic dystrophy. But one of the things is they were finding that it ketamine worked well with suicide, is that the EMTs they would be called to a scene where somebody had attempted suicide, and they would, give them, ketamine because it is used on, it's used on the battlefield and, other arenas.

And to, as an anesthetic it's a dissociative anesthetic, so it lets you feel outside yourself. it's a very strange response. But what they were finding is people who were attempting suicide and had, tried to complete it and were unsuccessful, by the time they got to the, emergency room, they learned that, they, when they would say, are you still wanting to kill yourself?"

They didn't have any thoughts of suicide. And so ketamine really does help. Yes

Frank: People often think of ketamine as Special K, as a party drug, but my anesthesiologist client said, "Frank, they've been giving ketamine as an anesthetic to children for years. It's very safe." Especially for children.

And in the right hands, it's-

Diane: Yeah. I can tell you, I go for treatments, every other month now, and I don't... I've never been one to do drugs because I was a nurse, and you have to be tested, so I never took, that into a effect. So going into a ketamine treatment was very strange for me, but I still don't get why anybody would want it, to do this because, I'm awake, I can respond to people, but I have...

It totally, for a period about 20 or 30 minutes, it totally numbs my whole body. Wow. Because I have chronic pain, I enjoy that benefit. but it takes me about two, three hours after my treatment. I still walk like I have baby giraffe legs. And, if you get up too fast and, you have too much movement of your eyes, you have to keep them closed for a while.

You'll feel nauseated and start vomiting. But ketamine has totally changed my life. It really has. and you know, it may not work for everybody, but it has for me. And, I know that it's well, founded with research in, for those with suicide tendencies. It really does, work for them.

Frank: And psilocybin, The Canadian military's been testing psilocybin magic mushrooms for

Diane: Yes

Frank: quite some time, and they found it's very effective on PTSD, depression, and substance abuse disorder.

Diane: Yes.

Frank: And Oregon has passed a law that in the care of a psychiatrist and microdosing-

Diane: Yeah

Frank: if you have depression, you can in fact, take, psilocybin.

Diane: Yes.

Frank: So it's, and it's, it's natural.

Diane: Yeah.

Frank: yep.

Diane: That's coming to a therapy, based approach with psilocybin and MDMA is coming, and will be, it was supposed to already be approved for, the psilocybin, but the, and the MDMA, but there were problems with, some things with psychiatrists not doing what they were supposed to be doing.

And so they had to do, redo the study and, but it is coming. And, when I helped my son open his ketamine clinic, it's in New Hampshire, and I laugh because I didn't, I never met so many hippies. boomer hippies that, know all about this stuff. and I feel very, very, ignorant on the topic, so I've been learning about it a lot.

And, I'm really looking forward to, when it does become, a way you can approach, your mental health with it, I'd like to give it a go and try.

Frank: Yes, as would I. The trick is finding a psychiatrist who can work you in the number of psychiatrists

Diane: Yeah

Frank: psychologists, therapists is

Diane: Yeah, yep

Frank: sadly, yeah.

Diane: Lackin'.

Frank: And I'm in, we live just outside Eugene, Oregon, which may be the hippie capital of the world.

Diane: Yes.

Frank: You meet the children of hippies oftentimes, let's say the hippie's 65 and the child is, 45.

And her name is Sunflower.

Diane: Yeah.

Frank: And I go, "Oh, really?

Hippie parents?" "Yes, how'd you know?" Because they named their children after plants and their dogs after people, that's how I know.

Diane: Oh. Yeah, you know, The ketamine has absolutely changed me. it's helped give me, a way to cope with many of the issues that I've had. And I don't have the depression that I used to have, this, over.

It like it lifted the black cloud over me. But, what gives you hope when it comes to preventing suicide and helping people reconnect with purpose and support?

Frank: I guess the, watching the impact.

Diane: Yeah.

Frank: I was in Cincinnati on a job site, construction. Construction has a ridiculously high rate of suicide.

Last year, 1,100 people died in construction accidents

Diane: Wow

Frank: and 5,100 died by suicide. there, you're five times more likely to jump off the building than fall off.

Diane: Yeah.

Frank: So I did the keynote, and there were half a dozen guys lined up, which is unusual. And the last guy in line, African American carpenter, mid-20s I'm guessing, crying so hard he can't speak.

So I wait till he gathered himself, and I said, "What's up?" He said, "I haven't slept in two nights. I work on the fifth floor of this building. I think about jumping off every day."

I said, "Why is that?" He said, "Because I've lost three people to violence in the last year, including my daughter, who died in my arms."

Diane: Oh.

Frank: Now, I'm guessing his work mates had no idea that was going on. maybe most of his family had no idea he was, that close to dying by suicide.

So the HR guy who hired me wasn't far away, so I waved him over. And I said, "Listen, you need to get the EAP, employee assistance program, binder and find the nearest mental health facility to where we're standing right now."

"And literally take this young man by the hand because he's circling the drain."

Diane: Yes.

Frank: Three months later, I had an occasion to talk to the HR guy again, and I'm just terrified to ask. Finally, I got up my nerve, and I said, "Whatever happened to that nice African American carpenter?" And he goes, "Frank? He was evaluated.

He's medicated. He's back on the job." I kinda feel like, George Bailey in It's a Wonderful Life.

Diane: Yeah.

Frank: Because I've been, I see what people's lives might be like if I weren't there to tell my story and also to hear theirs.

Diane: Yes.

Frank: And if I killed myself, then in theory I could take a lot of those people with me who never had a chance to hear me or me to hear them.

Diane: Yes.

Frank: So that's what keeps me, that's what gives me hope, that's what keeps me going.

Diane: That's a beautiful story. And, there's, millions of people out there that need help, and we don't know the burden somebody's carrying. And, I'm, from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and I've lived all over the country, and I always say hi to everybody.

I walk along and I go hi to everybody, And

Frank: Oh, yeah

Diane: and my sister-in-law says, "Why do you do that?" I might be the only person in the entire day that acknowledges that person exists. And, you don't know. And a lot of times I'll start, I'll strike up a conversation with them.

You know, I used to embarrass my kids because I would talk to people and ask them how they're doing or, how their day's going or whatever. And, because of that I've had people tell me stories, I'm just like you, where, they're in pain or they're struggling with something.

And I really feel God puts, and I'm not a religious person, I'm more spiritual, but I think that God puts people in our path for us for a reason. And maybe that reason is that we give them, another day, a ray of hope that they may live another day. I don't know.

Frank: Well, on that, along that line, one of my clients who's gonna be doing the TEDx with me on the 4th of July, the theme of her TEDx is What If I Hadn't?

And she was in New York and saw a young man walk into the street in front of traffic. So at her, at the risk of her own life she ran out, grabbed him and dragged him out of the way of the car that was coming. And part of her story is, well, what if I hadn't?

Diane: Yeah.

Frank: And he fell into her arms crying.

He was suicidal. He was, having trouble in school and gonna have to tell his, he was Korean, have to tell his parents he wasn't doing as well,

Diane: Yeah.

Frank: there's this Kevin Hines famously survived a jump off the Golden Gate Bridge. And he was hearing voices, decided he wanted to kill himself.

Didn't know how, so what do you do? He goes to Google. And there was, how do you kill yourself in San Francisco? They gave him a list of bridges. Great. And he picked the one closest by, and he said to himself, "If anybody asks me how I am on the bus that I'm taking to the bridge, I'll tell them how I am.

Ask them to please dial 911. I'm gonna hurt myself." Nobody on the bus.

Diane: Yeah.

Frank: Nobody. And he said, if anybody walking on the bridge asks me how I'm doing, 'Hey, how you doing?' I'll tell them and ask them to dial 911, and I'll, I'm about to hurt myself." So he's there looking over the railing at the water, and he feels a tap on his shoulder.

He thinks, "Oh, thank God." He turns, it's a couple from Germany, and they said, "Would you take our picture?"

Yeah. So he said, "Sure." So he takes their picture, and as soon as they turned their backs, he went over the railing And he survived the drop, which many people don't.

Diane: Wow.

Frank: He hurt his back pretty badly, but he survived the drop. And the funny part of the story is he's in the water, he feels something large and aquatic bump up against his leg under the water, and his thought was, "Sharks?

The website didn't say anything about sharks. I survived a drop off the Golden Gate Bridge. I'm gonna get eaten by a shark?" It was a sea lion. But yeah, see, if anybody had said to him, they looked up and looked him in the eye and seen the pain and said, "Hey, man, how you doing?"

Diane: Yeah.

Frank: He would've immediately told them.

So I'm like you. I say, "Hey, I say hello to just about everybody, and especially if they look like, they're in some distress.

Diane: yeah.

Frank: "Hey, man, you okay?" Okay. And most times it's just, they're just consternated because they can't find the drug they're looking for at Walgreens.

I had a guy one time say, he's standing in front of the wall of aspirin.

Diane: Yep.

Frank: And I just, customer service is in my blood. and so I see he was confused, and I said, "Hey, man, what, what can I do for you?" 'Cause here's the thing I didn't tell you, Diane, no matter where I am or how I'm dressed, people think I work there.

Honest to God.

Diane: I love it. I love it.

Frank: Yeah, and I've been like leaning over a, maybe got a big bin of things that are on sale, and I'm looking through it, and I feel somebody looking at me. And I turn to her, and I go, "You think I work here, don't you?" She goes, "You don't?" No. I just have a face for customer service.

Diane: Yeah.

Frank: So he's, I wrote a joke about I work on cruise ships as a comedian, and I wrote a joke. I could be standing in the jewelry store on a ship wearing cowboy boots, an athletic supporter, and a football helmet. And somebody would come up and go, "You work here?" Yeah. I go, "Yes. Ca- Casual Friday.

How can I help you?" so he's staring at the wall, an older guy like me, older guy, staring at the wall of aspirin. He goes... I go, "Can I help you, man?" He goes, "Yeah, where are the baby aspirin?" I go, they don't call it baby aspirin anymore. It's 81 milligrams, and here it is right here."

"Oh, thank you very much." yeah, 'cause I just, I think people with depression feel, others' emotions more, strongly,

Diane: Yeah

Frank: more empathetic,

Diane: empaths, yes. Yeah,

Frank: just, you, I could, one of the things I worry about with the latest, the last two generations, to come around is they don't...

They spend so much time with their face in a phone. They, instead of, looking in somebody's eyes, there's a joke where a person Gen Z has a friend who has some kind of tragedy, and the, Gen Z wants to comfort a friend, but she doesn't know what to say. However, she knows exactly which emoji to use.

So that's what worries me

Diane: Yes, it does me as well. I really like the parents that don't allow their kids to have the cell phones and limit their time online, and encourage them to go out. Because, when I was a kid, and even my sons, they played outside all day long. They, they had their games and stuff, but they enjoyed the outdoors. And, kids just don't do that anymore.

Frank: No, we were out. It's sad after school we were out.

Diane: Yeah,

Frank: when the weather was good and we were outside, and we played football in the street, we played basketball in somebody's backyard.

Diane: Yep, yep.

Frank: We in the summertime we were, when the days were long, we were out past dark with no, tracking device.

Diane: Yes, yes, yes,

Frank: It's amazing we survived into adulthood.

Diane: Yes. and we learned coping skills for I really feel sad for the kids that are in college, and they have to go to a, find a safe place because somebody hurt their feelings.

I'm like, oh, dear God, how are you gonna get through life? It's, it's but that's-

Frank: the world is not your safe space

Diane: No, it's not. Frank, you bring such honesty, compassion, and humor to a topic that so many people are afraid to discuss. How do my listeners find you or reach out to you?

Frank: Type in the words, mental health comedian into Google and you'll find me. I'm also on LinkedIn. You type in mental health comedian, you'll find me. that's my brand. I've worked very hard. I tell my speakers, "Look, here's what you want to happen. Somebody sees you, they really enjoy you.

They're in a meeting a year later. People are talking about booking somebody like you, and they think, 'Oh my God, ugh, I saw a great guy. What's his name? Okay, do this. Type in the words mental health comedian and speaker, and I, he'll come up." That's what I'm after, that your brand is that strong you know that,

Diane: That they find you, the mental health community

Frank: that they find you, yeah.

Diane: Yeah. I love that. And for the caregivers listening today, if you're struggling, overwhelmed, or feeling alone, please know that asking for help is not a weakness. Your mental health matters, too. And if you're concerned about someone you love, reaching out and starting a conversation could truly save a life.

Reach out to Frank, he is there, and all your information, Frank, will be put on a permanent page on Caregiver Relief with this podcast so that future listeners or future view visitors to my site can find you.

Frank: And Diane, to that note, to, on that note, I always put my cell phone number up on the screen in PowerPoint, and I say to the audience, "Look, if you're suicidal, dial 988."

Diane: Yes.

Frank: If you're just having a really bad day, call a crazy person. Here's my cell. Yeah. And every now and then somebody calls about themselves, about a loved one, and I tell them, "Look, I go to bed early. I turn my phone off."

But as soon as I turn it back on in the morning, I'll return the call.

And I turn my phone off because my mother when, remember when you had phones that plugged into the wall with four little

Diane: Yes. Okay.

Frank: She would always unplug it before she went to bed. One day I finally got curious. "Mom, Mama, why do you unplug that phone when you go to bed?" She goes, "Son, at 2:00 in the morning it ain't ever good news."

Diane: How true is that? How true is that?

Frank: Yeah. Sleep well and take care of it in whoever it is ain't gonna get no deader.

Diane: Your mom was a character.

Frank: Oh, Lord. Oh, yeah. Witty and beyond, yeah. I, that's where I get it. It's, that wicked, fast wit like that.

Diane: Yeah. My, brother, my younger brother always says we come from a family of smart-asses.

Frank: Yes, and there's money in that.

Diane: I need to monetize it then.

Frank: Yes. I'm telling you. Yeah ... yeah. You got that or I got this a lot in school, "You got a mighty smart mouth." Yeah, one day it'll pay off.

Diane: Frank, thank you so much for your time. And to my family caregivers out there, you are the most important part of the caregiving equation.

Without you, it all falls apart. So please learn to be gentle with yourself. Practice self-care every day because you are worth it.