Setting Boundaries and Letting Go of Guilt with Corey Seemiller PhD -Episode 167

Caregiving is often the most profound expression of love, but it also carries a heavy, hidden burden: the toll of constant self-sacrifice. If you have ever felt selfish for saying "no," worried you are letting a loved one down, or carried the crushing weight of guilt after a tough conversation, you are not alone.

In this episode of the Caregiver Relief Podcast, I am joined by Dr. Corey Seemiller—an award-winning professor, researcher, and host of the Rock That Relationship podcast. We dive deep into the uncomfortable, essential art of setting healthy boundaries and, more importantly, how to finally release the guilt that keeps us trapped in a cycle of burnout. 🎧

🎙️ What You’ll Learn in This Episode

Whether you are caring for a parent, a spouse, or navigating complex family dynamics, this conversation offers practical tools to protect your wellbeing. We discuss:

• The 7 Types of Boundaries: From physical and emotional to financial and spiritual. Knowing which one is being crossed is the first step to fixing it.
• The Power of "Forecasting": Why having upfront conversations about your limitations can actually improve your relationships and reduce tension.
• The "Unsolicited Advice" Rule: Why you have the right to protect your mental health by telling others when their opinions are not welcome.
• Breaking the Guilt Cycle: Understanding "Moral Luck"—why we feel responsible for outcomes even when we’ve done everything right—and how to practice self-forgiveness.
• The Caregiver Agreement: Why systemizing your caregiving journey (and revisiting it every few months) is the best way to prevent burnout and financial ruin.

💡 Key Takeaways for Every Caregiver

"You are no good for others until you put your own face mask on first." — Dr. Corey Seemiller

• Boundaries are a Foundation: They aren't just for you; they make your interactions with your loved ones more productive and less volatile.
• It’s Okay to Renegotiate: You are allowed to admit when you can no longer handle a specific task. Revisiting your caregiving plan every three to six months is a sign of strength, not failure.
• Build Your "Care Team": You weren't meant to do this alone. If family can’t provide physical relief, request financial support to bring in professional help.
• Protect Your Future: Don’t lose your identity or financial security. Prioritize small acts of self-care—like a daily walk or coffee with a friend—to keep your "garden" watered.

📖 Resources Mentioned

• CoreySeemiller.com: Find links to all of Dr. Seemiller's work, including her book, The Soulmate Strategy.
• Rock That Relationship Podcast: Check out the latest seasons on self-growth, self-love, and getting unstuck.

Ready to start prioritizing yourself? Listen to the full episode below to reclaim your peace and learn how to navigate your caregiving journey with resilience and grace. 🌟

Podcast Episode Transcript

Diane: Welcome to the Caregiver Relief Podcast. We're a podcast that helps family caregivers care for themselves while caring for others. I'm your host, Diane Carbo, registered nurse and caregiver advocate. Today we're diving deep into the hardest parts of caregiving, setting healthy boundaries, and finally releasing the guilt that comes with it.

It. If you ever felt selfish for saying no, worried, you're letting your loved one down by taking time for yourself or carried, crushing guilt over a tough conversation, you're not alone. And this

episode

is for you. I'm thrilled to welcome Dr. Corey Seemiller and an award-winning professor of leadership studies and global generational expert.

Her work on building emotionally intelligent relationships has been featured in the New York Times, the NPR Time Magazine, Newsweek, and The Atlantic, and more. She's delivered over a hundred keynotes. Worldwide and her TED talk on Generation Z has more than a quarter million views. When Corey's long-term relationship abruptly ended in 2021, she faced intense heartache and guilt emotions.

Many caregivers know all too well as well. Instead of finding the help she needed, she drew on her research in emotional intelligence and applied it to personal relationship. She became an accredited life coach specializing in the law of attraction and intuitive development. Co-host The Rock That Relationship Podcast and wrote the book, the Soulmate Strategy, my Imperfect Plan to Conquer Heart Break and Find True Love.

Diane: Corey, thank you so much for joining us today. I know when I asked you, you said, you told me about your books and they're all about romantic love, but I can tell you from my 72 years on earth, we all have love relationships and that's what I was looking for because majority of caregivers are.

People pleasers and they wanna make their loved ones happy or, in some way. So they really have a hard time setting boundaries and letting go of guilt. So I am so glad you're here. So welcome to the show.

Corey: Hi, Diane. Thanks so much for having me. And this is such a, an important topic regardless of the kinds of relationships we're creating boundaries for, I mean, that's very universal.

We, I mean, I think about all the work that I do in terms of understanding and setting boundaries, even with coworkers, right? Neighbors. Yes. I mean, it's everybody. So boundary setting is a really critical part of just any kind of personal relationship.

Diane: It really is. So,can you start a bit by sharing, about your background in leadership and life coaching and how it led you to focus on topics like boundaries and resilience?

Corey: Yeah, well, I mean, my background is I'm a professor of leadership and within leadership there's a lot of different topics you can teach. I kind of tend to resonate around the ones that have to do with self-development, self-understanding, emotional intelligence, developing leadership capacities and interpersonal skills.

So I'm kind of that. Person who does the kind of communication and interpersonal relationships work, in the courses I teach and my undergraduate degree is in interpersonal and intercultural communication. So my, my kind of, my passion is that area. but

Diane: I find that interesting.

Corey: Yeah. I've been doing this since I was 17 years old and started college.

This has been my draw is to understand why people do what they do and better understanding them. So even the work that I do in my generational studies, and I do a lot of work on studying Generation Z, is what makes them tick. How do they get along with other people? what are their tendencies to in terms of communication?

So it all has this underpinning idea of. How people relate to each other and I've been studying it. I've been supervising people through their own, relationship issues. I've been teaching the topic. But once I went through a significant heartbreak and I wrote a memoir all about all the things, I tried to feel better, I ended up launching a podcast as part of that process called Rock.

That Relationship and. We've done 12 seasons so far over four years and had on multiple experts, on various topics on relationships. And so I continue to learn from them, continue to talk about these ideas on relationships. So it's, my world has kind oftaken a little bit of a turn and interestingly I just finished a big study on love and relationships and trying to figure out what people's perspectives are on relationships and, getting along with others.

So it's something I've been doing since I was like 17 years old. But really it continues to manifest in various ways for me.

Diane: As a professional and a family caregiver, I can tell you that I needed your information decades ago.

I'm the oldest of four. I'm the bossy older sister that knows everything according to my siblings, but, when it, and in nursing, I can set limits and boundaries, but when it came to my family, my friends, my love relationships, I couldn't do that. or I didn't do it well. what are a common signs that a person should look for when they're struggling with setting boundaries and how does that impact their overall wellbeing?

Corey: I think you make a really interesting point, when you talk about boundary setting is that sometimes we're very good at setting boundaries in one area of our life, but not so good at doing them.

Diane: Yeah,

Corey: for instance, some people are really good at setting boundaries at work, but then go home and have no boundaries with their family, or maybe vice versa.

The other thing too, is sometimes we're really good at certain types of boundaries, but we're not as good at others. So maybe I can help by refreshing people on some of the main types of boundaries, because that will help you think about. Which boundaries might you be having the most difficult time creating and setting and keeping, right.

So let's, if that's okay, I can go over a few of the types of boundaries.

Diane: I would love that because that's important information for me to learn as well.

Corey: Excellent. Well, really we have, Around seven different types of boundaries. Okay? So as people are listening, thinking about, do I set this boundary well?

And then if I set it well, do I set it well in all aspects of my life? The first one is physical boundaries. These are things like maybe touch physical space. I know for like maybe a caregiver, you're probably constantly, people are wanting to give you hugs. maybe you're not a hugger. and like, where are your physical boundaries?

do you welcome other people into your home? You may notice that some people say, I'm a very social person, but I don't want anybody in my home. and so what are those physical boundaries that you're setting? The second type is emotional boundaries, limits on anything that would infringe on your emotional wellbeing.

So this might look like, not wanting to have an important discussion five minutes before you have to walk out the door. if someone says, I need to talk to you about something, and you can say to them, listen, I'm walking out the door right now, but let's find a time later we can talk about it. If you don't have that boundary, you end up sitting, being distracted while you're listening and then being late for whatever you have to go to.

it could be also how frequently you talk to somebody who vents or complains all the time. You're that sounding board and sometimes it's just dragging you down. Do you, can you actually say to that person, listen, I can appreciate you're going through a lot right now. I have some things on my mind and I want to.

Honor my own wellbeing right now. So I'm gonna take a step back. I work with students and oftentimes students would come to me at the most obscure times and they would say, I need to talk to you right now. right now. And unless something was like on fire, I would often say if I was really distracted, I would say, listen, I'm not gonna give you my full attention right now because I'm really distracted.

Can you come back in an hour and we can talk about this? And I found that people were really. Responsive to that because they, they say, yeah, I'd much rather have your full attention in an hour than part of your attention now. so sometimes we think when we set boundaries, they're not, that they're offputting to people, but sometimes they actually aren't the

Diane: next time.

I like that one. I don't know. I've never done that. They, people stop me when I'm in a hurry and I just sit there and you're right, I'm distracted. I don't give them the full attention, and then I move on. Good point.

Corey: Yeah. Yeah, it's such an interesting one. So setting boundaries is not just for you, it's for them, and it's for whatever that interaction's gonna be.

Because a lot of times those aren't productive because someone's talking to you, you're completely distracted. You might snap back or say something you don't, didn't think through because you're in a hurry and now you have an interaction that. Could have been more productive. So those are what we call emotional boundaries.

there's mental boundaries which protects your mental health. It might be saying no to things. This is a really important one, I think, for caregivers, is to be able to say no or ask for help and say, I need support. And be very clear. I cannot do this doctor's appointment on Friday at two.

We're gonna have to find another time. I cannot take you to the doctor at two. I have this other thing going on and it, and unless that's the only time that's available, usually you can work something out. But sometimes people will say, okay, I guess I'll move my schedule around. And so set those boundaries also, Telling other people, this is really important and I think I'm, speaking to people who you know as caregivers, parents, teachers, anyone who's working, and mentoring or helping someone else is, it is okay to tell people you do not want their unsolicited advice. I want you to hear this loud and clear.

I did not ask you for your advice and I did not ask you for your opinion on this.

Diane: Oh, Corey, you have no idea how many caregivers have uninvolved siblings and extended family members that are judging them and dismissing what they do and, and pushing more and more responsibility on them, and that it's just horrendous.

So that one's a really important one for caregivers to understand. It really is

Corey: absolutely. Well, and a lot of times the unsolicited advice is so ill-informed because that person's not in the situation, they're not in the context. And then, of course they're gonna give you a whole load of things you need to do and then step back and not help.

And so it's okay to say, I don't want your unsolicited, I don't want your advice on this right now. This is what we're doing. And it's hard sometimes, to be able to say that to someone. So that's protecting your mental health. the, another one is, Around. and we won't talk about, this doesn't have to do with caregivers, but I do think it's important to talk about in terms of if someone's just listening for boundaries in general, but it's things like physical intimacy, boundaries.

and so I'm just putting that out there for folks too, is especially if you are taxed, if you are exhausted, if you are tired, it is okay to say to your partner, listen, I don't even wanna sit next to you tonight. I'm just exhausted. and that's different than a physical boundary of who's in your home.

But it's okay to say this is, I need. Some space I need to sleep in a separate room tonight. I am so exhausted, I need some time to myself. And these are really important boundaries that we often don't think of because not only are we people pleasing potentially for people we're caregiving for, but we're people pleasing for our partners and our families at the same time.

And you can draw boundaries with them. To help you get more energy for the caregiving part that you're doing.

Diane: Many caregivers are married and they bring the, their family member into their home to provide care, or they provide care at the aging seniors home. And the relationships really do, are challenging.

the romance partner relationship is always challenged, and then a lot of them have adult children. That are still going to school. And there's those relationships where the kids, wanna, yes, they're teenagers, but they want, oh, they wanna go places, they wanna do things and sometimes they just wanna a night at home with mom or dad.

it's infrequent as they get older. But, let's sit and have a pizza party or watch a movie and with popcorn and, most caregivers, after years of. Of caregiving are exhausted and they give in when they shouldn't.

Corey: Yeah, you would think like a pizza party might be fun and enjoyable, but after a really long day and you're really stressed out, maybe you don't want to have a pizza party.

And it's okay to say that.

Diane: and it's okay. The other thing is when you're providing intimate care, bathing somebody that you know, your elderly parent and cleaning them up after they've, pooped and peed, it's just, you just don't have that.

Energy to put into, an intimate relationship. There's just some times where you just have to take a step back, because I did that as a rehab nurse. you're taking care of somebody all the time, and then you're supposed to feel love and romantic when you get home and it's oh, hell no.

I need some space.

Corey: Exactly. Exactly. Yes. And I think for this one, but for all of them, it's really important to, instead of just when a situation arises in which someone might cross a boundary, one that you didn't even know that you had Is to be more intentional upfront and say, listen, this is a really tough time right now.

I wanna let you know that there will be times in which I don't feel like I wanna be physically close. I'm just exhausted, or I. Was too physically close with someone as I was cleaning and bathing them today. I just feel like I need some of my own kind of bodily space right now and or just I'm going to need that over the next few weeks.

So just please understand that. So these sort of, foretelling conversations I think are really important.

Diane: Yes, they are. Especially 'cause caregiving can last up to six years, sometimes as long as 20, depending on the. The family member, but three to five years is, an average for a lot of caregivers and they get intense near the end.

Like the last two or three years can be really brutal, with all the care that they have, and you hope and pray that you have a supportive, caring and understanding partner.

Corey: Absolutely. Especially if someone has moved into your home, you know you've been

Diane: Yes.

Corey: and it's parent or whoever it might be.

Diane: And That a whole nother level of boundaries with dealing with a parent in the home.

Corey: Exactly. Exactly. there's three other types of boundaries that I think are important to also talk about when it comes to this topic is one is spiritual boundaries. this is really interesting. it's also kinds of, aligns a little bit with that unsolicited advice is people trying to critique your beliefs, telling you what you should believe in.

And this might actually come more to a head with end of life care, I would imagine does. And, The spiritual, if they have spiritual or religious beliefs of the person, in the caregiving role, but also the person being cared for and other people having their own perceptions. We need to get a, a priest in here for this, or we need to, whatever the case may be, or the, just sending messages of, the afterlife and things that could get really, that could feel like boundary crossing in a big way.

And I, and a lot of times we don't think of that because we think people are just trying to be helpful, but really it can be very violating in some ways.

Diane: It is. And I've seen many interactions where, one fi one sibling is very religious and the parent may not have been, and the parent has set in their advanced directives.

I do not want these things done. And then the POA, the, power of attorney is another sibling who's trying to respect the. Aging parents wishes and the dynamics between the one that's very religious and spiritual,it's really tough. it's really very challenging.

Corey: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Diane: they tell their parents, they tell their sibling, you're killing mom when you don't give her, a feeding tube or you're, you put her on hospice is gonna kill her.

and meanwhile, if hospice killed them, they have a budget and they'd like to use that budget For the patient, they don't get any money if they kill 'em off too soon. And it's, they're not killing them, they're just walking through the end of life. so yeah, I've seen that many times and it's really hard. That's why I encourage my family. Seniors and family caregivers to put a power of attorneys in place and only put one person, not two as your power of attorney because when you have two with opposing views, even though they'll say they'll honor your wishes, when push comes to shove, they may not so one with a backup of the other one, but only put one so that they can say with that they're honoring your wishes, at the end of life.

Corey: Yeah, absolutely. And it was interesting when my mother passed away a few years ago, she actually made a document that was kind of like it. She had all of her power of attorney documents in her legal stuff, but she made this document that was more of just like a letter to my brother and I, and it was actually, I will tell you, it was as much humor as I can find in her death, which is very little.

I will share this with you. She actually wrote in this letter. I wanna be cremated. So that was helpful. My brother and I were on the same page. Mm-hmm. And then her further directive to me was, Corey, don't you dare get a coupon off a Groupon to do it.

Diane: I, you know what I have to tell you, your mom had a great sense of humor. God bless her.

Corey: Right. I thought that was hysterical. So my brother and I were like, okay, we're not getting discount cremation, I guess. And so, I mean,sometimes those things are, not only do they bring humor, it gave us a chance to laugh a little bit, but it also gave us a little bit of direction.

And so we didn't have to argue about cremation or burial or anything. We had some very clear directives and for me to stay off of group one.

Diane: Yeah.

Corey: so

Diane: that is, what a wonderful gift she gave you. That even in thinking about her demise and. she could, think of something funny to say.

Corey: Yes, exactly right. And apparently I'm the cheap one 'cause it was directed to me not my brother, which I already knew. But

Diane: I love it. I love it. I love it.

Corey: Yeah. speaking of cheap ones, a couple other boundaries I think that are important to talk about, and this is probably a huge one I know that probably comes up for caregivers, is financial boundaries.

Yes, is how to not only protect your own assets or draw boundaries of assets, but also of the, of managing, particularly if you're the power of attorney or managing the money, and how it's done in terms of,the management of the funds of somebody. I know in my situation, my mother was, She was incapacitated for a month prior to her death. My brother and I were the dual healthcare powers of attorney, but I was the sole financial power of attorney. So that created this kind of a sticky situation between us because in some situations we were making decisions together and others I was making them, and I tried to include him, but at the end of the day, I had to make some determinations about things and set some boundaries like.

This is what we will pay and this is what we won't pay for things. And and that was a little bit hard, especially for those people who are, again, not all caregiving, not a lot of it is end of life, but in this case, being on the same page, but having different legal documents that have different powers of attorney can also be very confusing when you're trying to set boundaries.

And so being very clear about what those boundaries might look like what constitutes an expense for the person being cared for that can be written off under that person's name. Or another sibling might say, absolutely, that's not, you shouldn't write off the mileage to the doctor's office, and the other person says, I should, or whatever might come up is just, is really describing what your boundaries are and then holding to them.

Diane: and speakingof financial responsibility and the POA, there are many, people that are very unprepared for the end of life. They have no funeral arrangements in, and the death industry really takes advantage of, these,the families because they feel guilt and they wanna give them the best.

Going away party that they ever had. they wanna buy the top dollar, casket, they wanna buy the top dollar earn, and none of that's necessary. That's, and it's all avoidable. If they would just put systems in place, funeral arrangements in place ahead of time.

Corey: Exactly. And it takes a lot of pressure off the people who are in that situation to make those decisions, to just make one less decision.

Diane: Yes.

Corey: And so that, that's a huge one. But the financial boundaries are important. And it's also important to say, and not just the financial boundaries of what you spend, but the financial loss of what that caregiver is losing by not working, using those hours to work on a wage. Another wage job that could be, somebody who's a lawyer that's working now only half time to do caregiving is losing half their salary and wages by doing caregiving.

And so being able to set what some of those financial boundaries are is really important. And setting those, maybe, again with siblings and other people.

Diane: Yeah. one of the things I encourage my family caregivers is to put a family caregiver agreement in place. And that way it not only allows them to set boundaries, but to find a way to get paid for the caregiving because many end up at or below poverty level when they're done.

And, we have a big, a problem right now where millennials or even boomers are still are leaving their jobs. To take care of somebody in the house and it, they lose all that income, like you said, and they're not getting, they're not putting money towards social security. They don't have, they lose their healthcare benefits.

It's just horrendous. So there really needs to be systems in place to help them,over avoid some of that with good planning.

Corey: Absolutely. And even like a transitional plan back into the workforce. I mean, the caregiving might be, a couple years, but then, in my case, my parent passed, and then here I am, what do I do?

How do I get back into the workforce at a wage that I was making before? In many cases, you have to start over. that's, these are all great things.

Diane: Yeah, I took off a year when my dad was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer to help care for him, and as a nurse, you always have something you can fall back on, as you're moving up a corporate ladder, you do, you start all over again.

Corey: Exactly. Yeah. And I work in,as a professor, and if I left my professor job and left tenure, I would never get it again in my lifetime.

Diane: yeah.

Corey: Yeah. It's like

Diane: Exactly.

Corey: You gotta think about what are you giving up? Yeah. Maybe I could get paid as a caregiver, but will that ever. Will that ever?

I recoup that. Probably not, but it's better than nothing. And so having those conversations, like you're saying in the planning stages? boundary setting is basically the foundation for all the agreements and all of these conversations. you're creating boundaries and you're writing them down.

And so if you do that more ahead of time than you do after the fact, you're gonna be in much better shape.

Diane: And that's why I asked you to do this podcast with us today because I have a system where I want caregivers to absolutely get a caregiver agreement in place where they can say, and I ask them a hundred questions.

are you gonna be comfortable if, your loved one, becomes incontinent of bowel and bladder and cleaning them up? Do you feel comfortable giving them, bathing them? Do you feel comfortable if they become aggressive and, lash out and may hit you? or how about if this happens with dementia?

how about if your family member becomes sexually. Inappropriate and aggressive. It happens, and caregivers, when they say they're gonna take care of their parent, they have no idea what they're agreeing to do. And that's why I asked those questions so that they could put in a, in the agreement when this happens, if this happens, then we need to get, other, Care in the house Be placed. And I know that people, caregivers say, oh, that's awful. But you have to look at your caregiving journey as a job and not, and that, that's another thing that insults people. But I don't know if you know this, but 63% of family caregivers become seriously ill or die before the person they're caring for.

Wow. And that's because there's no affordable respite care. There's no, it all falls on one family member to provide care for the aging parents. And it's really challenging. And I just was shocked to learn. it used to be that the family caregiver is the single largest pillar of the long-term care industry.

A year ago or two years ago, they were providing free care, unpaid care, in at $650 billion. It just hit $1.1 trillion a year in unpaid care. Wow. And they're not, and that's huge. And there has to be some changes. I even encourage them to create a, a caregiver relief group or a care team partner group where They create and have expectations. In fact, when you talk about the boundaries and the financial boundaries, the family caregiver puts out a lot of money. of their own money to pro help provide care for their family member. And they have uninvolved siblings and extended family members who don't wanna help and provide physical support for them by giving them relief.

So I tell them you need to say, be strong enough to say, then I want you to contribute financially to have someone, someone else come into the home so that I can get a break. And people aren't doing that, and they need to start doing it because, we are in trouble right now with our healthcare system, our Medicare system.

it is just, we're gonna have people a hundred percent because they've moved Medicare to a. This is another thing. They've moved Medicare to a cost sharing plan, and that means you're going to pay more out of pocket for the care that's recommended and it's getting really ugly as far as their rationing, our care, the rehab, their rationing so much and it more and more falls on the family caregiver to, provide care once.

Provided by healthcare professionals, and that's why I really wanted to hear you today talk about boundaries and setting limits and overcoming guilt because, we are, we have a public health crisis right now because it's just with the changes in Medicare, our family caregivers are expected to do way more than they have ever expected to do before.

With less.

Corey: Absolutely. Well that lines up with the last boundary, which is time boundary. And I think that goes a lot with finances. It's, how much time can you invest in this and how much, and I'm gonna even add to that, how much of a skillset can you invest in something are, there are just things that about certain tasks of caregiving that you may not be able to, or have an interest in learning how to do might be changing wounds.

It might be like, I have a back injury. I don't think that if I had to caretaker for someone who is relatively large that I could flip them over in a bed. what things do you have the capacity to do in terms of your time and your skills, and what are you not willing to do? And I think when you're talking about creating plans, is writing these things down.

These are the things that I can do. These are the things we're going to outsource. Yes. and that, and making it a living and breathing document, because it could be that in six months. That you said, oh, I thought I was gonna be willing to do X, Y, Z, and now you're saying not. It's not useful. It's doing that is creating tension between the person I'm caring for and me.

It's ruining our relationship or maybe I physically can't do it. I don't have the time to do it, I can't afford to do it, whatever the case may be. But making that a living and breathing document so that you revisit it, even depending on how much care the person needs. It could be every three months, it could be every six months and saying, let's look at this.

but really that boundary of time. it's okay. Time is finite. Yes. And we simply can't risk our own health and wellness like you're talking about, to care for someone else. So much so that it takes a toll on ourselves and we're not doing what we need to be doing.

Diane: when I started my very first website, aging home healthcare.com, 2025 years ago.

50% of caregivers were becoming seriously ill or dying, and I thought that was horrible. But with the all the changes in Medicare, it's up to 63%, and now I'm afraid it's going to go to a hundred percent because we are putting more and more. Pressure on the family caregiver and they don't know how to handle it.

That's why I think it's so important for them to be able to set boundaries, and I love the fact that you brought up the point that they should renegotiate. And I think that if you have somebody with Parkinson's or dementia, or severe diabetes, you have to revisit what you can and cannot do, maybe even every three months like you said, and say,I thought I could, and I love that you say it's okay for them to go back and say, I thought I could do this, but I can't.

And as a nurse, I can tell you,I tell people I picked up men for a living. but I, and I did rehab, nursing for years, and my back, my neck, is ruined. it's, my body's broken. I live with chronic pain. I stay active and, that, but, it's from years of pushing and pulling. Tugging and pulling people up in bed and stuff, and caregivers are hurting their bodies as well. Wow. They have probably no healthcare at all to seek, help. I just talked to a caregiver the other day who was. Taking care of her husband, and she did it all alone for years, and she actually, developed breast cancer during the last two years of his life, and she wouldn't seek treatment until, oh my goodness, he passed that.

You know that shocks me that people make those decisions, but they do.

Corey: They do part of that comes from do I have enough time to take care of my own treatment? Do I have enough money to do that? But part of it is this kind of, do I want to shift my focus? This other person seems more dire and I'm responsible.

I have to put them first and, I remember this kind of a little, somewhat of a related story is, as I mentioned before, my mother was in the intensive care unit for about a month before she passed, and I would go every day and sit in there, sit in the. Hospital with her. And, but every day I would go out, I go walking every single day.

It's a thing I do, I make sure that I go usually Between four and six miles a day. And I made that commitment during COVID I, so I could stay healthy. And I remember that I actually had an interaction with my brother. It was one of the only disagreements we had in, in the entire time that we had to, go through that period.

And then after her death was, he said, I don't understand. Why you can just go out walking when mom is so sick.

Oh

Diane: my Lord.

Corey: And he was frustrated with me because he thought, I was shifting my focus from her and being selfish, which I get right from the outside. Yeah. But I said, I am no good to her unless I am good for myself.

And I said, I am a better. Child and decision maker. And thankfully I didn't have to do a lot of like medical care 'cause she was in the hospital, but I had to do a lot of other things. I said I'm better for it by going out and taking my one hour a day, centering myself mentally and physically getting exercise and.

I held true to that thinking what are, if you think about, the caregivers that listen to your podcast here is, what is that one hour a day that they wanna do for themselves? That could be anything from exercising, to reading a book, to doing something artistic, could be cooking for themselves.

What is that one thing? And if they say, I don't have enough time to for self care, then that's when you go back to that time boundary and say, I need to make time for that. Because yes, you are no good for others until you put your face mask on first, before you put others on.

Diane: Yes. that's why I encourage that people to develop a care team partner approach where they can have someone come in to stay with their loved one, not to provide.

And you need help with practical, assistance. Like somebody needs to walk the dog so that it gives you time to do, other things. Somebody, maybe they're managing. Help can pick up the meds or have them delivered, but stay on top of them so that you don't run out. There's so many tasks, sometimes you just need someone to fold the laundry.

you should be able to ask somebody for that. And what I've learned, and this was a hard one for me, I, for me personally, was to ask for help. And then, figure out what I should have them do because I was like, I could do it all, and I just couldn't. I couldn't. And I learned, and it's a personal growth experience that you just have to learn that you can't do it all.

And then there's the caregiver who, And I was this person at one time where, they will ask you what they can do and you go, oh, I don't need it. Instead of saying, yes, I can. Then reach out and say,what would you like to do? What can you, And if I can't, and then they say,what can I do?

And I could give you a whole list. And I started rattling off, Hey, I need help with the laundry, folding it, if I can get it washed and dried, or things get, be picked up with the dry cleaners. nowadays you can have groceries. Delivered, but sometimes you don't even have time to put them away.

that's how bad caregivers get. So if you can ask somebody to come in and I'm learning, and it was hard, but people want to help. They want to feel needed. They, that's part of their, giving back. And it's just part of being a community. And that's one thing we've gotten away from is. a community where people, are expected to help.

one of the, amazing places I worked with at Dock Terrace, it's a Mennonite community. in, Philadelphia, outside of Philadelphia, and they had an intergenerational plan. They had the nursing home on one side. They actually had the children daycare in, in the middle of the, community, so that the elderly can watch the kids.

and they had, they also had housing, for families and the families would come over. And with their, as part of their community and religion, they would visit and interact with all kinds of different things and they have activities. And we've lost that sense of community in our world. For the most part.

And, we feel like we're alone, but we don't have to be. 'cause people I think, are really craving that sense of community. They just can't find it.

Corey: Sometimes they don't know how to best help. So we might say, yeah, I need your help. And they say, what can I do? And then say, I don't know. but being very clear about, what you need help with.

Maybe it's a one time task or Hey, on Fridays, can you swing by and pick up the refills on your way home from work? And being very clear about what that task is. But I wanna add to that too, is, There's this kind of guilt associated with asking people to do something. So the idea is, if I'm gonna ask you to go pick up the medicine, then I need to be using the time that I would otherwise be picking up the medicine to do something in caregiving.

Like I need to be doing something else. But that's not, that's a fallacy. You can call someone and say, can you pick up the medicine? I need to go out on a. For an hour, I just gotta clear my head and it's okay to ask people to pick up some slack for you to have self-care because that self-care is contributing to your health and wellness and the health and wellness of that partnership so that there's a guilt associated.

I'm not gonna ask someone to cook me dinner when I'm perfectly, when I have the time to do it. I just would rather be doing that time, like I wanna go have coffee with a friend. I haven't had coffee with a friend in a month. It is okay to set that boundary and ask for help and people will help.

You don't have to feel guilty about asking.

Diane: caregivers, Over time lose their outside relationships because they won't take time to meet with somebody. Or if they do, they're so busy talking about what's going on in their lives that they don't take time to look at the other person and listen to them.

So people, they drop out of their relationships. And I tell my caregivers. Outside relationships are like a garden. You need watering, it needs watering, and it needs sunlight. take time to go out, go to the gym, go to yoga. maybe you just wanna go to the movie with some friends or have a few drinks.

you should be able to do that because there, there is a time when caregiving is over. And you have, and so many of them, after that journey is over, they have nothing. They have no job, they have no friends. Many lose their homes because they moved into the family's house and the other siblings have, With no payment or anything in writing. They lose out so many on so many things, and it's just really sad. So that why I think it's so important that we encourage the boundaries. could we talk a little bit about why guilt is such a persistent emotion for people?

Corey: many people are hardwired to feel like they, they should be. Completely and utterly responsible for humans under their care. So this guilt for caregiving is very much the same kind of guilt that comes from parenting. It's the same kind of guilt that in some of a lesser form comes from teaching.

From people who are counselors or therapists, is this idea that you're somehow responsible for someone's wellbeing. And if we don't do everything in our power to potentially, aid in the situation that we have somehow failed, or we are less than. And so that guilt is just, it's one of those emotions that's tied up in a lot of things that, that we do.

And then if we make a choice that somehow doesn't go the way we want to, then we go back and we feel. We feel bad about the choice. There's a really interesting, phenomenon. it's called moral Luck. And moral luck is this idea that if you make a decision, say you make the worst decision ever.

It was a horribly uninformed, terrible, risky decision, but it turns out well. You oftentimes are affirmed. That was great, that everything was good, and you move forward. the converse of that though is where some of the guilt comes in, is if you make a really well informed decision, it's calculated, it's smart.

you double checked everything. You did all that you could to make a good decision, but the outcome isn't good.

Diane: We

Corey: tend to have guilt over that, even though we did everything in our power that we possibly could have. And it still turned out badly, and that's sometimes where guilt is generated is in that, that segment of moral luck where something just ended up happening,

In my case, I made as best of decisions as I possibly could have. I look back now and I think maybe there's some other things I could have done, but I did everything I could and my mom still died. Yeah. And so instead of being guilty and feeling like. I somehow am responsible for that because I messed up on the one day I told the ICU nurse not to put a bandaid on the cut.

I'm gonna be living with that guilt. I can't, you cannot do that. You cannot, if you do the best you cannot live with anything of the outcomes that come about. You just cannot.

Diane: that's what I think so many, I, there are groups out there that on Facebook, hospice has killed my mother, or hospice is trying to kill my mother or father.

And, I don't, they must, those people must carry such immense guilt, that they. Or, and their lack of knowledge on end of life. The process, the death and dying process, and honoring the wishes of their loved one. They don't understand that, these feeding tubes are bad for you as you start to decline in your life and.

Can hurry death more than slow it down. Or fluids giving them fluids when they think they're dying of thirst. And people have tremendous amount of guilt and it's those times that I wish they would reach out and talk to the doctors, talk to the nurses,and. Understand the death and dying process so that you know you're not killing somebody.

'cause I hear that all the time and it just breaks my heart. So it really does.

Corey: Yeah, absolutely. And if you do the best you can. You try to be as informed as you can. There's only so much you can do. Yes. And if you live with that guilt, that is your punishment of to yourself.

Yes. No one else feels that except for you. And a lot of people o oftentimes don't think that you're guilty of anything. And it's your own doing, and it's exhausting. Yes. And so this idea of self-forgiveness is very important. Even if you have nothing to forgive yourself for, it's just letting yourself off the hook.

I think about a million different things I could have done. My father died of lung cancer. Yeah. I could have gone back in time and tried to get him to stop smoking earlier than he did. I could have coulda. You know what, I didn't. I did the best I could. Yeah. And what, from what I knew, and he just ended up getting sick.

I got cancer and died, and that's just how it ended up. But if I lived with that guilt for the rest of my life. And then that guilt would inform my future behaviors where I'd go around and tell everyone how to live their lives so they didn't end up like my dad. That's also like the guilt of future responsibility, like I'm now supposed to go around and prevent this from happening to anyone else to make kind of penance for what I somehow did to my dad.

you can see how this gets very complicated, very fast, and then you end up with these just. Layers and layers of feelings that you need to process through. So really the idea is learning how, and probably with the help of a therapist or a trained, coach is being able to work through some of that guilt.

Where is it coming from? Is it just grief tied up in guilt or is it, do you really feel like you made a bad decision and really work through that?

Diane: my oldest son was a veteran,a Korean linguist, really intelligent young man. Developed a severe pain condition in the military, and I fought with them for years.

I went all the way to the Surgeon General's office to get him. I advocated, I was a fierce advocate for him. And, eight years after his first assess, suicide attempt, he couldn't take it anymore,because of the treatment and he killed himself and people that. Survive suicide.

You just, you look at what did I do? What could I have done differently? And it is, I did everything I could to help my son have a better life at and pain relief, but it's just, he wore, he got worn out. Trying to go through, jump through all the hoops that the government makes you.

And there's so many people out there that have survived, are suicide survivors that feel tremendous amount of guilt. I don't have that guilt. I know many of my family members do. I did what I could. I tried, I love my son and I supported him and the only thing I wished is he would have, told me he was doing it so I could have prepared myself better or been there for him.

I would've taken him to Switzerland. if that's what he wanted to do, but, he couldn't reach out to me. So I know that guilt, people get guilt for the simplest things. They missed a medic, they missed a med, antibiotic and that kind of thing. So it's really challenging. But, Corey, you have an amazing amount of knowledge on relationships. So how do my caregivers, if they wanna, read some of your books or listen to your podcast, how do they find you?

Corey: Probably the best place to go is just Corey Seemiller, which is my name, Corey seemiller.com. And from there you can find links to just about everything, including what I think what might be useful for, for your listeners is a link to my podcast called Rock That Relationship.

But you can also find that on Spotify, apple, and. all the major podcast channels and listen to rock that relationship. We actually create seasons based on particular themes, so you don't have to go hunting around for particular episodes. What you can do is just jump to a season that has a,might have a whole series of 10 episodes that are all about a theme and jump right to that.

We just finished a. Series on,self-growth and self-love, which I think might be really useful for your listeners. Absolutely. We had another one that was, that might be really useful on getting unstuck. So people who feel like they're trapped in this caregiving role in this life and maybe finding ways that they can subtly.

without necessarily having to fully, change the situation if they can't, but getting emotionally unstuck. yeah. So there's definitely ways to go and search for those podcast episodes. And then of course, my book, which has absolutely nothing to do with caregiving, but is interesting.

And if you need a break, right? If you want that break, And you wanna laugh at me a little bit on the absurdities of the things I did after I got out of a relationship and tried to jump into the dating world again. I think you would get a kick outta my book called The Soulmate Strategy, my Imperfect Plan to Conquer, heartbreak and Find True Love.

and so check that out. Take a little bit of a break from what you're doing and just make sure you do some self care.

Diane: We always need to, have some levity in our life, always to my family caregivers out there. You are the most important part of the caregiving equation. Without you, it all falls apart.

So please learn to be gentle with yourself. Practice self-care every day because you are worth it.