Obesity and Type 2 Diabetes: The Real Root Cause of Weight Gain and Blood Sugar Problems with Dr. John Poothullil - Episode 263
In this episode of The Caregiver Relief Podcast, host Diane Carbo, RN sits down with Dr. John Poothullil—board-certified physician, nationally syndicated columnist, and author of Diabetes: The Real Cause and the Real Cure and Beat Unwanted Weight Gain. Together, they tear down conventional myths to reveal the true metabolic root causes behind obesity and Type 2 diabetes 🩺✨.
This episode isn't about blame—it’s about understanding, empowerment, and taking your next right step toward long-term wellness 🌿💪.
📋 Episode Outline & Key Topics
- Welcome & Introduction: Host Diane Carbo introduces Dr. John Poothullil and sets the stage for a judgment-free conversation on metabolic health 🤝.
- Challenging Conventional Explanations: Why the global surge in weight gain and Type 2 diabetes isn't an infectious disease, yet affects people worldwide at the same time 🌎.
- Flaws of the BMI Chart: Dr. John discusses medical vs. cosmetic obesity and why traditional weight charts often fail us 📊.
- What is Your "Authentic Weight"? Discover why your health and ideal weight are best reflected by where your body was in your mid-20s when metabolic parameters were normal 🎯.
- The Agricultural Revolution Impact: How the rise of cheap, processed, grain-based foods over the last 60–70 years reshaped human diets worldwide 🌾.
- Conditioned to Eat: Breaking down "The Clean Plate Club", eating on schedules rather than actual hunger signals, and overcoming childhood conditioning 🍽️.
- Demystifying Insulin & "Resistance": How insulin acts as a doorbell to body cells, and why Type 2 diabetes is fundamentally a problem of overconsumption rather than cell failure 🔔.
- Reclaiming Control & Natural Signals: Understanding sensory receptors in the mouth, sensory satiety, slowing down, and practicing true mindful eating 🧠👅.
💡 Key Takeaways from the Conversation
1. Medical vs. Cosmetic Weight ⚖️
BMI charts often categorize individuals incorrectly based on arbitrary height-to-weight ratios. Dr. John highlights the concept of Authentic Weight—the weight you maintained in your mid-20s (post-growth with normal blood sugar, blood pressure, and triglycerides)—as a far better indicator of true individual health than standard BMI metrics 🎯.
2. Overconsumption vs. Underutilization 🔄
- Type 1 Diabetes: The body lacks insulin, causing cellular underutilization of sugar 🚫.
- Type 2 Diabetes: The body often has abundant insulin, but cells aren't accepting more glucose because they are already full from overconsumption relative to current energy needs 🔋.
3. Re-learning Natural Hunger Cues 👶
We are all born with the innate ability to regulate our food intake (just like toddlers do!). Over decades of eating according to the clock, watching TV while eating, or adhering to "clean your plate" rules, many adults lose touch with genuine physical hunger signals ⏰.
4. Slow Down & Enjoy Every Bite 🍽️
Chewing food thoroughly releases nutrient signals that notify the brain when you've had enough 😋. Highly processed foods require almost no chewing, leading us to eat faster than our body's natural satiety sensors can respond 🥪⚡.
🔗 Resources Mentioned in This Episode
- Guest Website: Learn more about Dr. John's work at DrJohnOnHealth.com🌐
- Books by Dr. John Poothullil:
- Diabetes: The Real Cause and the Real Cure 📚
- Beat Unwanted Weight Gain 📖
Podcast Episode Transcript
Diane: Welcome to the Caregiver Relief Podcast. I'm Diane Carbo, RN, your host today. Today, we are talking about a health issue that affects millions of families, obesity and Type 2 diabetes. For many people, weight gain and blood sugar problems come with frustration, shame, confusion, and a long list of advice that does not always feel realistic or helpful. Families are often told to focus on willpower, dieting, or medication, but many are still left wondering, "What is really the cause? Why is this so hard to lose weight, and what can I do differently?" My guest today is Dr. John Poothullil. He's a board-certified physician, nationally syndicated columnist, and award-winning author. With more than 30 years of experience as a pediatrician and allergist, Dr. John has dedicated his work to exploring the root causes of lifestyle diseases, including obesity and Type 2 diabetes. He is the author of Diabetes: The Real Cause and the Real Cure and Beat Unwanted Weight Gain, and his medical theory on metabolic disease was published in the peer-reviewed journal Medical Hypothesis in April 2026. In this episode, we will explore the connection between weight gain, blood sugar, insulin resistance, food choices, and metabolic health. We will also talk about why understanding the root cause of obesity and Type 2 diabetes may help many individuals and families make more informed decisions over long-term wellness. This conversation today is not about blame. It is about understanding, empowerment, and taking the next right step towards better health.
Diane: Dr. John, thank you so much for joining me today. We have an epidemic of obesity in children as well as adults. So before we get into that more, I'd like to learn what first led you to question the conventional explanations for obesity and Type 2 diabetes?
John: Diane, first of all, I thank you for having me on your show, and I thank the audience for being interested in this topic. 'Cause as we all know, the incidence of weight gain and type 2 diabetes is increasing not only in the United States, but all around the world.
Diane: Yes.
John: So what could cause such a worldwide phenomenon? Obesity or type 2 diabetes is not an infectious disease. It doesn't spread from one person to another. Yeah. So as you know, you have dealt with many illnesses and conditions. If there is a spread within a family, you immediately look for who is bringing it in, who is spreading it to whom, what is the reason, what's the mechanism. Here we have a phenomenon that is happening all around the world at around the same time. So we have a couple of questions we need to understand first. One is, what is obesity? How do you define obesity? Is it based on a scale or a weight chart? Or is it based on BMI, body mass index? And if so, 80% of the people who are diabetic in the United States are considered obese, whereas 60% of those who are diagnosed with type 2 diabetes in India are either normal weight or maybe a little bit overweight, but not in the obesity range of BMI. So how do you-
Diane: Oh, that's interesting.
John: Yeah.
Diane: Yes.
John: In the United Kingdom, they did a study and found out the vast majority of people who develop diabetes are lean, not obese. So how do you first-- you have to start with the beginning. What is obesity to begin with, and what is causing a lifestyle or a non-infectious disease to spread or come up all around the world around the same time?
Diane: Now, that's a good question. My BMI, I am called obese. Now I'm 5'2" and 150 pounds, but the scale wants me to be no higher than 118 pounds. And I'm like, when I get into the 130s, and I don't care about talking about my weight at my age, I don't care anymore. In the 130s my sons used to tell me, "Mom, you're getting too thin. You look awful." So, you know, I didn't care about what the chart said. I couldn't because whatever it is about my body, I could never get down to 118. I don't think I was that weight in high school, and I would look like a skeleton.
John: You are the prime example of what I'm talking about.
Diane: Yes. Now-
John: Let me ask you a question. At mid-20s, how much did you weigh?
Diane: At when?
John: Mid-20s. 23, 24.
Diane: Oh, mid-20s? Yeah. Well, I had babies in my mid-20s. Okay. So I'm gonna say I was around 125, 135.
John: Okay. That's a hundred and... You were 135 in between babies?
Diane: Yes.
John: So let us say...
Diane: Yes, yes.
John: And your blood sugar was normal.
Diane: Yes.
John: Your blood pressure was normal.
Diane: Correct.
John: Your cholesterol most likely was normal.
Diane: Correct.
John: Okay.
Diane: Correct.
John: Now, why should you be classified as obese? Only because the BMI chart said so.
Diane: Yes, yes. Exactly.
John: This is the biggest fallacy that I have been struggling with. So my definition of obesity is, there's a medical obesity and a cosmetic obesity.
Diane: Yeah.
John: So for somebody who has been trained to say, "Okay, anything above BMI of this, BMI of that is obese," you are obese. However, if you look at the medical field... Now let me answer your question, or the question you are asking, in a different way.
Diane: Okay.
John: When I was in practice, I had two patients, both of them weighed 300 pounds. Both are men. They are my patients, so each one came independently, obviously, and asked me, "My doctor, family doctor, is telling me I should lose weight because I weigh 300 pounds." So I asked him, "What is your weight?" "300 pounds," of course. "And what is your blood pressure?" "Normal." "Blood sugar?" "Normal." "Cholesterol?" "Normal." And I told him, "You have no medical reason to lose weight. Your doctor is going by the BMI chart, and he's telling you, oh, you are obese."
Diane: Yes.
John: "But for me, you are medically healthy. And you have no medical reason." Now, if you have a joint issue or anything like that, that's a different reason.
Diane: Right.
John: If you want to look good or trim, whatever, that's another reason, but medically you're fine. The other person was already on two different diabetic medications. He had high blood sugar--
Diane: Yes. Yeah.
John: and his doctor was asking him to start insulin, and he got scared because his own secretary, who was on insulin and kept her A1C below seven, was having an amputation on the very day that I was seeing him. So he got scared, and he wanted me to tell him what he should do. He does not want to take insulin because he has a business to run. He has two boys in college, or going to a college, and he needs his legs. This secretary was having amputation of her legs in spite of keeping A1C below seven using insulin.
Diane: Oh.
John: So I told him, "You are medically obese. You have to lose weight. There is no question."
Diane: Yes.
John: So if we can distinguish, the first question is... So I came up with the term authentic weight. What is your authentic weight? Your authentic weight is the weight you had when you were in your mid-20s. Why mid-20s? Because you have reached your maximum height, your bone density is the maximum, and if your blood sugar, blood cholesterol, and triglyceride are normal, that is the ideal weight that you should be. Because after that age, you are not getting taller, you are getting only wider.
Diane: Yes, yes, yes.
John: So that is why I asked you that question, what was your weight in the mid-20s, because that is your authentic weight. Forget about BMI chart, weight tables. And if you are around that age, that weight, just enjoy life. Don't worry about weight.
Diane: Yeah. Well, at my age, I don't wanna be thin. First of all, my body type is, I'm very large-breasted. It's a genetic thing from my family. Everybody's telling me at this weight I'm tiny, and I'm like, "I've never been told I'm tiny in my whole life." But, and I think, I keep saying, "Well, I should get down to 135, 140. That would be good for me." And everybody says, "Oh, you're not gonna... You shouldn't lose that kind of weight." But 'cause we're older, we do wanna keep a little bit of weight on us, but not much, to help us in times when we become ill. But I'm at a weight where I'm comfortable with my weight now. I'm not worried about... I just wanna be healthy and well. That is my concern. The way I look is okay. I'm not a fashionista, so I don't care about things like that.
John: You will know immediately the authentic weight when you feel uncomfortable. When you feel like, oh--
Diane: Yes.
John: you have put on some... Your brain will tell you. You just listen to your brain and keep an eye on your fasting blood sugar and triglyceride.
Diane: Yeah.
John: Those are the two things. And check your weight every day. And at the same time you will know if there is an unusual weight gain, is it water weight because you ate something salty?
Diane: Yes.
John: Or is it something else? You will know within 24 hours what's going on.
Diane: Yes. Well, that's a good idea, 'cause I don't get on... I'm told I shouldn't get on the scale all the time. I don't mind getting on the scale. Unless I'm in denial and just don't wanna know the truth--
John: No.
Diane: On those days when I was bad.
John: But no, my point is if you make it a routine every day--
Diane: Yes.
John: you know why it happened--
Diane: Yes.
John: because of what you did yesterday.
Diane: Yes.
John: Yeah. Then you can connect. Okay, I had so much outside food. And what is wrong with the outside food? It's not the quantity or the type of food, but primarily the amount of salt, which needs water to keep the salinity of blood.
Diane: Yes.
John: So you have control over it.
Diane: Yeah. Now when people hear the phrase "root cause of obesity and type 2 diabetes," what do you want them to understand?
John: You have to look at the history to understand what is going on. The whole epidemic of obesity and type two diabetes, it started about 60 to 70 years ago all around the world. Okay, what happened at that time? It is called the agricultural revolution.
Diane: Yes.
John: What does that mean? That means every government in the body started subsidizing grain farming, rice, wheat, and corn. Now, think about it. If rice, wheat, wheat... wild corn, I'm going to keep it separate. Rice and wheat primarily. If they were meant for humans, we would have had beaks to pick them up to eat, and we are made to digest the--
Diane: Chaff. Yes.
John: We don't.
Diane: Yeah.
John: So it was an easy way to feed millions or billions of people--
Diane: Yes.
John: to cultivate, and the Industrial Revolution made it possible to mill it, refine it, package it, and keep it for a longer period of time. So every... Now, a simple way to look at it is, when is the last time you had a meal or a snack without a grain-based product?
Diane: I avoid grains right now. I've been doing it for a very long time, because that is my, that... I love bread, I love cakes and cookies and all of those things, and I just, they're not good for me. They make my stomach feel yucky sometimes, so I just really avoid them.
John: Well, you don't need them.
Diane: Yes.
John: They're not good for you anyway, so you're avoiding something you don't need.
Diane: Yeah.
John: Okay. And so that is the way to look at it. That's the reason we're all around the world, because that is the cheapest food available. That is the main ingredient of almost all processed foods.
Diane: Yes, yes. You know what else was happening 50, 60 years ago, 70 years ago, is there was a movement from breastfeeding your baby to bottle-feeding your baby, and that also changed things, I think, for women. And I could tell you right now, when my mom died, I was 18, just starting nursing school. I was going through her things and I found a prescription for my baby formula, and what they prescribed for me was whole milk, liquid vitamins, and two tablespoons of Karo syrup in my formula. So we grow up being introduced to sugar at such an early age, it's awful.
John: Well, if you look at the origin of bottle feeding--
Diane: Yes.
John: the pediatricians wanted to be in control of everything for the mother and the baby.
Diane: Yes.
John: And they came up with the idea the baby should be fed every four hours, and how much the baby should take, how much the mother should give. Now, think about it. When the baby is nursing, who is in charge?
Diane: Yes. Yeah.
John: Who decides when to--
Diane: That baby is.
John: Who decides when to drink, how much to drink, and when to stop?
Diane: That's a good point.
John: And the baby grows up normally.
Diane: Yes, yes.
John: So if we are all born with that kind of capability to control and regulate-- now look at the toddler age from two to six. The child will decide when to eat, what to eat.
Diane: Yep.
John: Grandma makes 10 different things. "Oh, my grandchild will love it." And the grandkid will come and eat one or two.
Diane: Yep, yep.
John: And of course, Grandma will feel good. Next time she will make more of those, and the child will never even touch it on that day.
Diane: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. In many cultures, food is their love language. And I know, I had my dad visit me when, in Minnesota, when I was living there with my two sons. My youngest son was probably a toddler, like maybe 18 months old, and he was a grazer. He would eat a few bites, and then he'd run off. And my dad was so upset. And I understand now why I have an unhealthy relationship with food, because we weren't allowed to leave the table until we cleaned up our plate. And, you know, if Casey wanted down, I'd take him out of his high chair and let him roam. And when he came back, when we were doing dishes and he was hungry, I'd give him whatever he wanted to eat. And I tried to avoid sugar with him, even in those days. I tried to, you know, all fresh fruit and vegetables and that type of thing, because I just know what I grew up with and the weight problems my whole entire family has, including myself, over decades. So I wanted them to try to eat healthier. But it's always a problem. The Clean Plate Club was really a hard thing to break.
John: Yeah. You mentioned your dad wanting you to finish the plate.
Diane: Yes.
John: Can I tell you an incident?
Diane: Yes.
John: I was counseling 10 American adults with obesity. I asked them to write down the exact time they felt the sensation of hunger and the exact time they ate for three days in a row, or a weekend. Four out of 10 never felt hungry for three days. But that did not stop them from eating.
Diane: Exactly.
John: So I asked them why--
Diane: I'm one of those people.
John: I asked them, "Why do you eat?" They said, "Oh, that was time to eat."
Diane: Yes, yes, yes.
John: We get conditioned.
Diane: Yes.
John: So the same people, I told them, I grew up in India, and certain days I did not feel hungry.
Diane: Oh.
John: So I did not know why. Now I know the reason. So they asked, why? How do you know? Because here people are eating for the starving kids in India and China and Africa. They are supposed to clean the plate because the people are starving.
Diane: Yes, that's it. That's what my... Yes. Hello. I can remember, I'm the oldest of four, and it tormented my one younger brother. He became, you know, he'd cry and everything 'cause he didn't wanna eat what was on his plate, and I just would tell my dad, "Then you need to send it to those kids in Ethiopia or wherever, they're starving." I mean, why should I eat for them, too?
John: And thank you. And I want to thank you for doing that.
Diane: Yeah. It's just, and many people are often told that weight gain is simply about eating too much and moving too little. Do you believe that explanation is incomplete? Should we know more?
John: Well, improper diet and lack of exercise, that is an easy way to put the blame on the individual.
Diane: Yes, yes.
John: If you do a treatment and if the result is not what you expected--
Diane: Mm-hmm.
John: how do you... You know, you want to put the blame on somebody. Or at least you want to find out the reason. Instead of blaming the process or the procedure--
Diane: Yeah.
John: say, "Oh, my procedure is correct. What I said is right, but what you did is not right."
Diane: Yes.
John: So that is the problem that I saw from the beginning. When I look at people, when I came across people who are diabetics, who are on medication, who are on insulin, still they are remaining diabetic--
Diane: Yeah.
John: and people who have to have amputation of legs.
Diane: Yes.
John: My relative, this is where I started. During my training, I came across my relative whose husband was a medical college professor. She was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. He kept her blood sugar level under control using insulin for many, many years. About 15, 20 years, one day she told me, "Oh, my wife..." He told me, "My wife is having an amputation of her leg."
Diane: Oh.
John: I said, "Why? You kept your A1C below seven. You were so diligent. You are a medical college professor." He said, "I don't know." She had the amputation. So I thought the doctor who is treating her will change the medication because it's obviously not working.
Diane: Yes.
John: Insulin is not working. But he continued the same--
Diane: Yes.
John: the medication.
Diane: He didn't change it, nope.
John: No. Because he said the illness is progressive. It is not the medication. It is the illness.
Diane: Yes.
John: And a year and a half later, her other leg was amputated.
Diane: Oh, yes.
John: Can you imagine an elderly professor ready to retire--
Diane: Yeah.
John: having to take care of his wife's physical needs, emotional needs, intellectual needs? That bothered me so much.
Diane: And it's happening all over the country right now, especially with the baby boomers because there are so many of us. And we are living longer, but not healthier. And so I'd like to hear more about how are obesity, blood sugar problems, and type 2 diabetes connected?
John: We have to go back and look at... I mentioned the term fasting blood sugar and triglyceride. Let me ask you this question. What time did you have your supper last night?
Diane: I had my supper at... I don't eat after 6:00 PM, so I ate my supper at 4:30 last night.
John: Okay. And may I ask what you had?
Diane: Yeah, you certainly can. I've become anemic, so I had a piece of fish, broiled, and I had some spinach, and I had some zucchini.
John: Okay. So if you ate at 4:30, by about 8:30, all of that has been digested and absorbed into the body.
Diane: Yes, yes.
John: So if I take your blood at that time, or you took your blood, you would see high blood sugar, high cholesterol, high fatty acid--
Diane: Yes.
John: high amino acids. And then the high blood sugar will stimulate your pancreas to release insulin. So insulin goes with all these nutrients to every part of the body. Your heart keeps pumping it to every cell, 30 trillion cells. Now, if somebody comes to your home to visit you, how do you know there is somebody outside?
Diane: I don't. How do I--
John: Either they ring the doorbell or they knock on the door, right?
Diane: Oh, yes. How are they getting inside? Yeah, ring the doorbell, or some people just walk in, but yes, I get that.
John: Let's say your door is closed, and they knock--
Diane: Yes.
John: But you have the option to let that person in or not.
Diane: Yes.
John: Okay. Every cell in the body, 30 trillion of them, can use glucose, but glucose has no way of letting the cell know that "I'm outside." There are no glucose receptors.
Diane: Gotcha.
John: The only receptor is for insulin, so it is insulin that lets the cell know glucose is outside.
Diane: Okay.
John: Now, the cell has to mobilize a wagon from the interior to the door, open the door, load up glucose, and bring it in for the cell to use.
Diane: Gotcha.
John: So the cell is in control. Each cell is an independent living unit, just like a home, just like an apartment.
Diane: Yes.
John: So if the cell does not want glucose, if the cell is already... You had enough, the cell has another source of energy product, like another fuel. The cell may not let glucose in. So do you call it resistance to insulin, or do you call it, "I don't want," non-responsiveness to insulin?
Diane: Yes.
John: If you have already... What is your favorite food? Let me ask you this.
Diane: My favorite food? I don't know. I like fish. I like chicken.
John: Okay. Let's say you had a nice meal of fish. And I bring in a nice meal of chicken immediately thereafter. Will you eat it also?
Diane: No, not anymore.
John: No, not at that time.
Diane: No.
John: But later you may eat it.
Diane: Oh, later, yes.
John: So can I say you are resisting feeding at that time?
Diane: Yeah. I get that. Yes. Yes.
John: So this is where the whole concept of insulin resistance comes in.
Diane: Yeah.
John: Muscles are not letting glucose in, but are the muscles functioning okay?
Diane: Yes. Yeah.
John: And if the muscles don't need it at that time, how can you call it resistance?
Diane: Gotcha. Yeah.
John: So that is what I'm trying to collect. It is not that muscles are resisting insulin. Muscles are not responding to insulin. Why? You have to now go to the next question, which is why. How do you know the muscles don't need it? Because muscles are functioning okay. When you are diagnosed with type 2 diabetes, you have no problem running, walking, jumping, playing.
Diane: Right. Yes.
John: So if the muscles are working, how can they be resisting--
Diane: And weight gain?
John: Well, let's start with understanding your balanced diet.
Diane: Yes.
John: Everybody wants a balanced diet. What is your definition of a balanced diet?
Diane: Well, if you look at the food pyramid, five to seven servings of vegetables or fruit a day, and, you know, as you go up, how many servings of grains and things you should have, as well as protein. Now they're changing it all around, so I don't know. I don't trust what the food pyramid tells me anymore.
John: Okay. Now, all those pyramids and all the serving sizes and numbers are based on averages.
Diane: Yes.
John: Okay. On average, a person is supposed to breathe in seven liters or six liters of air every minute.
Diane: Interesting.
John: Okay. So if I tell you, you should breathe in six liters of air every minute of your life, will that work?
Diane: No. Absolutely not.
John: All right. You cannot do exercise at six liters per minute--
Diane: Yes.
John: and you cannot sleep, but at the same time breathe in six liters of air whilst--
Diane: Correct. Waking. Correct. Yeah.
John: Now, to understand it better, when you sit down to eat--
Diane: Yeah.
John: do you know what exactly your body's looking for in terms of amino acids, fatty acids, vitamins, minerals? Have you any clue what your body needs at that time?
Diane: Well, you know, I used to have cravings. I don't anymore. But when I sit down to eat a meal, I try to... The first thing I eat is usually the protein, or I love vegetables. I love vegetables and fruit, so I'm a good... I love a huge salad and that type of thing. Those things make me happy and make me feel that I'm eating a decent diet. But, it's the first thing I eat, it's usually... But, you know, I see... I don't go out to eat much, 'cause I don't like the processed food, and I know people... I'm shocked when people don't know how to cook, and they go out to eat three times a day. I'm like, "Oh, my Lord." Dr. John, I was watching the World Cup, and people from all over the world were coming here and enjoying our food, and they were all showing and shocked by unlimited refills for soda, and I'm thinking, "That's awful. I'm embarrassed by that." And the food portions, they would say, "Oh, my Lord, the food portions." And it just... It's gluttonous consumption. That's the way I look at it. And then they were saying... Somebody, one of the athletes or something, asked, "You take food home with you?" And they said, "Do you really take it home and have it as another meal later?" And people do that 'cause our portions are out of control.
John: Right. So you have made so many interesting points in what you just told me. First of all, you said you ate not for the quantity, but for the enjoyment. You selected, you like certain vegetables, certain fruits, because you have enjoyed them before. They make you feel satisfied. The second thing you said was, or another thing is, overconsumption.
Diane: Yes.
John: That made me think of type 1 versus type 2 diabetes.
Diane: Yeah.
John: In type 1 diabetes, the blood sugar goes up because of underutilization by the cell--
Diane: Yeah.
John: because the cell doesn't know there is glucose outside due to lack of insulin. So there is underutilization. Whereas when you are diagnosed, at the time of diagnosis of type 2 diabetes, you have enough insulin, sometimes even more than enough insulin in the blood. So you have high blood sugar and high insulin at the same time because you are consuming more compared to what the cells can use.
Diane: Okay.
John: So type 2 diabetes, or high blood sugar in type 2 diabetes, is a result of overconsumption relative to the need, whereas type 1 is underutilization because of absence of insulin. That's the two different types.
Diane: Ah.
John: Now, if you inject insulin in a type 1 or type 2, the blood sugar goes down.
Diane: Yes.
John: In type 1 it gets into the cell now because the insulin is there. It's working.
Diane: Yeah.
John: In type 2, where did that sugar go?
Diane: Where does it actually go?
John: Right. From the blood it disappeared, but where did it go?
Diane: I thought it would be just like type one, it would be absorbed by the cells. It would be knocking on the door saying, "I'm here. Take me."
John: Which, which cell are you talking about?
Diane: I don't know. I don't have a clue.
John: Now remember, endocrinologists tell us you are a type two diabetic because your body or cells have become resistant to insulin.
Diane: Yes, yes, yes.
John: So if the blood sugar went down, where did it go? If the cells are resistant to insulin, how can the sugar go in?
Diane: That's a good question. Tell me more.
John: Well, what they come around to is, there are 200 different types of cell in the body. But they pick three to be resistant: muscle, fat, and liver.
Diane: Ah.
John: 197 cells have no problem responding to insulin. So why did these three become resistant?
Diane: So what you're telling me is, when we take insulin, if we're given insulin, that our body, our muscles, our liver, and I can't remember the third one--
John: Fat cells.
Diane: Fat cells, the third one, will... are not absorbing the insulin to... or absorbing the sugar--
John: Not responding.
Diane: Not responding, yeah, to the insulin that we've put in our body.
John: That is why the blood sugar is high and you became a diabetic.
Diane: Ah.
John: So what is your question? Why can't you just believe what I just said? Why are you cons--
Diane: I'm like, so the things that need the energy, the things that need the sugar to come into them, the muscles are not absorbing that? It's going to other cells in the body? Is that what you're saying?
John: It is go-- So that is, that is in the medical textbooks. That is what you and I learned--
Diane: Yes.
John: in our training.
Diane: Yes.
John: That is why you have type 2 diabetes. But it's not so. Well, if they are... How can these three cells one day... Let's say you have a 200-unit condo. And three co-owners, condo owners of three different condos--
Diane: Okay.
John: on their own, without any correspondence, decide from tomorrow we are not going to respond to the postman if he comes there.
Diane: Okay. Okay.
John: Is that possible? Out of 200 different units, three people independently decide from September 1st onwards we will not respond to the postman.
Diane: They're gonna have a ton of mail in front of their houses or in their mailboxes.
John: Whatever, but we just won't respond.
Diane: Yes.
John: Can they independently decide that? Does that make any sense?
Diane: Well, people have free will, so yes, they could choose to do this. So you're telling me cells do that too?
John: No. That is what endocrinologists are claiming. Okay. There are millions of cells in the liver, thousands of muscle cells, and billions of fat cells. They all decide one day, "We are not going to respond to insulin."
Diane: So it's not real. It's not, it's--
John: Yeah, yeah. It's not--
Diane: It's not factual.
John: Is that logical?
Diane: No. No, it's not. Not yet. Okay. Not at all.
John: Okay. Then how are they going to execute that? Who is going to be in charge and say, "Okay, don't do that. The postman is coming. Shut off the door. Don't respond. Don't answer." Who is coordinating all that?
Diane: I have no idea.
John: They don't either.
Diane: Yeah.
John: But they want you to believe--
Diane: Yes.
John: that that is what is going on.
Diane: Yes.
John: Now, you give insulin-- they bring in, instead of one postman, they bring in 10. Or they say, okay, if they constantly knock on the door, you may let the glucose in. Does that make any sense?
Diane: Nope, it doesn't either.
John: But at the same time, the cells are functioning fine. The liver is still working, the fat cells are still storing, muscles are still-- so if you are resistant to something but you're still not showing the signs, how can you term them, you are resistant?
Diane: That's a good question. Yes.
John: Now, suppose you are resistant to an antibiotic, will the doctor give you the same antibiotic?
Diane: Hell no. Nope. It's a stronger one, and worse.
John: Okay. So when you come to the doctor, the diagnosis says, "Okay, you are type 2 diabetic." So you ask, "Why?" "Because your body has become resistant to insulin." "Okay." "Now, here is the prescription for insulin. Take it."
Diane: Yeah. See, I try to... Well, when I take care of diabetics, I've seen so many of them have a terrible struggle with adjusting their insulin. They have periods where they take... Their body doesn't respond well and their sugars drop, and they're like in la-la land, almost towards death. And then the same thing happens with, their sugars get so high even with insulin that they pass out and can't function as well. So you're telling me the cells are saying that they're not insulin resistant, they're maybe sugar resistant, or...?
John: They are happy, they had enough, they don't want any more.
Diane: Gotcha. Okay. Okay.
John: Why are you forcing them if they don't need it? If they are weak, if muscles are weak--
Diane: Yes.
John: they're not functioning, if the liver is not working or if the fat cells--
Diane: Yeah.
John: are gone, then you can understand. But if they are all happy and working, why do you force them with gluco-- with insulin?
Diane: And we do that by overeating and not being active, and we do that by eating the wrong things our bodies don't need.
John: Right. You're putting in more and blaming the muscle and the liver and the fat. Okay.
Diane: And it's really your hand-to-mouth issues, feeding your face.
John: If you don't put it in your mouth--
Diane: How can it be in your blood? Absolutely. Okay.
John: So the treatment for diabetes--
Diane: Mm-hmm.
John: or what I call medical obesity--
Diane: Yes.
John: starts in your mouth.
Diane: Ah, gotcha.
John: So that means you are in control.
Diane: Yes.
John: So if you want to treat anything, treat your hand. Keep your--
Diane: Give us something to do, not hand to mouth. And many people, they smoke, which makes me sad, because... And as soon as they stop smoking they gain weight. So it's, what are they doing there? That's a whole 'nother ballgame. But your work definitely challenges conventional thinking in medicine. What do you hope physicians, patients, and families will begin to look at differently?
John: Well, you said even you went to eating, when you took your children--
Diane: Yes.
John: to your parents' house, your son or your child will eat what he or she wants--
Diane: Yep.
John: and then go out and play. So let me give you another example. Suppose you and I went to a buffet. There's 50 different items.
Diane: How would you-- I only wanna go if it's Indian food.
John: Right. Okay. Let us go there for lunch.
Diane: Yes, yes.
John: How many will you choose? Let me give you a number.
Diane: I probably would choose two or three things. I don't like buffets because there's way too much food and it encourages overeating. But when I was younger we would do it, but...
John: Okay. Let us say, just for argument, about five items.
Diane: Yes.
John: Based on what?
Diane: Based on how it looks to me, and if I think I'm going to eat it.
John: In other words, when you say look, that means you have seen them before--
Diane: Appealing.
John: Yes. You have enjoyed them before.
Diane: Yes.
John: So based on your previous experience and enjoyment, you'll take five items.
Diane: Yes.
John: This is for lunch, and you'll sit down and eat and enjoy them. Suppose we go back to the same buffet for supper. Will you take exactly the same five?
Diane: I may or may not. Depends on if they've changed the buffet. Yeah, this--
John: Most likely they have not. The menu is the same. Will you take--
Diane: Yes.
John: Do you enjoy the five at lunch?
Diane: Yes.
John: Will you take the same thing again at supper?
Diane: Well, I know people that... Yes.
John: No, I'm asking you.
Diane: Yeah.
John: Will you take the same?
Diane: I probably would, because I know them. I know the foods. I know I enjoy them.
John: I know. You know all the foods. More of them.
Diane: Yeah.
John: You have enjoyed many, but at lunchtime you took five. Will you take the same five or will you try something new?
Diane: Oh, I got it. Yes, I probably would, because they were good and I want more.
John: Yeah, okay. Or would you... For most people, they will select... They may take one or two of the lunch ones, but they may take two or three more of the ones they still know. Would you do that?
Diane: Yeah, I would. Okay. I would probably add a few more.
John: Right. Yeah, because why do you feel like you need a variety?
Diane: You know what? I think it's just gluttonous consumption. If it looks good, sounds good, smells good to me, I wanna put it in my mouth.
John: But what I'm saying is there is a physiological reason--
Diane: Ah.
John: for you to think like that.
Diane: Okay.
John: Whatever you ate during lunchtime, it has been digested and all the nutrients have been absorbed.
Diane: Yes.
John: The control center in the brain now knows what all nutrients have come in. And in the meantime, other cells in the body have reported to the control center what they need now. So the subconscious brain recalculates and sends a message to the conscious brain, looking at all the food in the evening or supper time, and says, "Okay, the other three foods now look more appealing because in the past they have provided the nutrients that we need now."
Diane: Gotcha. Yes. Yes. Yes.
John: This is what is happening with the toddler.
Diane: Yeah.
John: From two to six years of age, they pick and choose based on the taste.
Diane: Yeah.
John: That taste, each time you chew, you are releasing the nutrients. The taste buds can pick up, report to the brain, "This is what is coming in." Now let me ask you a different question. If you are thirsty right now, can you predetermine how much water it will take to quench your thirst?
Diane: This morning I was on the beach, and it was very hot, I was sweating a lot, and I came home and I drank a whole, probably eight ounces or 12 ounces of--
John: Just... Okay, before you drink, before you drank--
Diane: Yeah.
John: could you have said how much it will take to quench your--
Diane: No. No. I just knew it was gonna be a lot, so I took a big glass.
John: How much time did it take to quench your, or to drink it?
Diane: A few minutes till I felt--
John: A few minutes.
Diane: Okay, yes.
John: By the time you finished drinking, your thirst is quenched--
Diane: Yes.
John: but where is that water? That water is still in your stomach.
Diane: Yes.
John: It has not been absorbed into the body yet.
Diane: That's a good point, yeah.
John: How did the brain know you had enough?
Diane: Good question. I have no idea.
John: If I blindfold you and give you something to drink, how long will it take for you to know whether it is water or wine or beer or tea?
Diane: I think just a few seconds to know what I was drinking.
John: The first sip will tell you what it is.
Diane: Yeah. Yes.
John: What I am suggesting is those receptors in the mouth are not only identifying what it is that is in the mouth, but also metering how much is going down.
Diane: Oh, I never looked at it that way. I never thought about that.
John: So the brain knows how much is your deficit--
Diane: Yes.
John: and as the sensors in the mouth are reporting--
Diane: Yeah.
John: the brain is saying, "Okay, you had enough. You have quenched."
Diane: Ah!
John: Okay, now what I'm suggesting in my book is there is a similar mechanism for nutrients. Each time you chew, you are releasing the nutrient into the mouth. The receptors are reporting to the brain at the same time what is coming in, and not only that, how much is going down. The first bite you take when you are hungry, that bite tastes so good. And during-- remember?
Diane: Yes.
John: At lunchtime, when you ate that first bite, it tasted so good.
Diane: Yes.
John: But after a few minutes, no, it doesn't taste as good.
Diane: Yes, yes, yes.
John: What is the brain trying to tell you? You had--
Diane: Enough. That it's had enough, yeah.
John: You know-- supposed to stop at that time.
Diane: Dr. John, because I had the Clean Plate Club award, I wore my badge because I was a good girl, I ate, did what my dad told me, and I shoved it in. I've gotten to a point where I don't enjoy food, because... Yes. I really don't. So, you know, a few bites or two... And for the first time, now I'm 73, for the first time ever that I can remember, I have felt hunger, because I don't eat all the time. I make myself wait till I think I'm hungry, and I had to retrain my whole brain to do that.
John: Exactly. That is why we have such a big problem all around the world. The food marketing companies are telling you, "We know what you should eat," just like the pediatricians who told the mothers--
Diane: Yes.
John: "Feed them every four hours or give them milk every four hours." "They need so many ounces each time."
Diane: Yes. Wow. Oh, Dr. John, this has been a fascinating conversation. Thank you. And I've got to get both your books because I need to learn more. How do my listeners reach out and find you and find your books?
John: DrJohnOnHealth.com.
Diane: DrJohnOnHealth.com. I will tell you, Dr. John, I create a permanent page on Caregiver Relief with this podcast, and I will have links to all your social media, your books, and your website.
John: Yeah. So all the books are available on Amazon. And so they can go that way. But the main thing is each person has to take charge.
Diane: Yes.
John: And they need to learn to ask questions. And if you don't ask questions, then you don't get answers.
Diane: Yes.
John: And see whether it makes sense.
Diane: It does to me now, yes. I wish I had heard this when I was much younger.
John: You know, if you are not hungry, you have no reason--
Diane: Yes.
John: to eat. Just let your body, let your brain tell you--
Diane: Mm-hmm.
John: when you are hungry, how much you should eat, what you should eat. If a toddler... we all were toddlers one time. We all did what we grew up normally.
Diane: Yes.
John: It is still there. All you have to do is reactivate it. It will--
Diane: Take time. Reactivate it. Fascinating. Fascinating. Well, I really appreciate you being here and providing all this information. Thank you so much. I've enjoyed this. Thank you. I really have enjoyed this. I've learned so much.
John: Well, more than this conversation, what I feel is you are going to enjoy each meal you take from now on. You are going to look at them differently.
Diane: Yes. You know what? I really am. Actually, it's so funny, because I used to just grab a bowl of cereal or something, some mindless thing to shove down my throat to get off in the morning, and now I look, and there's days when I come into the house and I'm thinking, "I don't know what I want to eat," and I don't, and really I'm not hungry, so I may wait till later. You know, just grab a drink, and eat later. And this is all new for me. I will tell you, it's all new for me. But--
John: In that case, let me tell you this. Enjoyment of eating is one of the faculties that you'll start enjoying from the moment you are born until you die.
Diane: There's--
John: I believe there is no other source of enjoyment that you can experience multiple times a day.
Diane: Yes. That's true.
John: A newborn baby, if you put that baby on the mother's chest--
Diane: Mm-hmm.
John: the baby will find, on his or her own, the mother's breast.
Diane: Yes. That's very true. That's very true. Yes. Yes.
John: So we are all born with the faculty to eat. The only thing is the availability.
Diane: That's very... I've never looked at it like that. But you know what? Our generation was raised by parents that were in World War II, and our fathers struggled in different ways in battle, and, you know, we weren't allowed to leave the... We had to clear our plates. We couldn't waste food. I mean, I still do that, where I feel like I need to go into the kitchen and go into the refrigerator and see what I need to eat up before it goes bad. And now I don't do that anymore, but--
John: You would rather put it on your waist than in the waste basket.
Diane: Yes, yes. And I've overcome that. I'm trying to... I still struggle with it, but I work to overcome it because I don't need it on my waist or my hips, and when I do it, I don't enjoy it. And that's another thing that you've told me that I've learned today. So I'm gonna look at eating a totally different way now, and I appreciate that.
John: Yeah. But the problem is going to be the competition from the TV--
Diane: Yes.
John: from somebody else talking.
Diane: Yes.
John: Your human brain cannot concentrate on two different things at the same time--
Diane: Yes.
John: and the visual cues always take over the cues or signals coming from the mouth. Almost half the food is gone from the plate before you say, "Oh, what am I eating?"
Diane: You know what? I try to do mindful eating. I actually try to just sit and pay attention to what I am eating versus watching TV and eating, because it is mindless and you don't know what you're putting in your body, or you're not taking time to enjoy it.
John: When you say mindful eating, I asked this of one of the people who are promoting that, "What are you supposed to be mindful of?"
Diane: Well, for me, I'll tell you, for me it's that I want to be mindful that I'm chewing my food, I'm paying attention, I'm enjoying my meal, and not shoving it down my throat to run off to go do something. I want to be able to be aware that I'm full and leave... And this was hard for me. It was really hard for me to leave food on the plate if I'm no longer hungry. And that was hard...
John: Right. You are doing it the right way. The number one reason we are obese, or everybody is obese, is everybody is eating too fast.
Diane: Yes, yes, yes.
John: You are not chewing the food.
Diane: Yes, yes.
John: And the reason why you're not chewing the food is because the processed foods require practically no chewing.
Diane: Yes, yes, yes.
John: Most of them are made with grain flour. How much can you chew rice or pasta or cupcake or cakes? All these require very... once you stop chewing, you swallow. You are looking at the next bite.
Diane: Yes, yes, yes.
John: So mindful eating, like you are doing, is you have to be mindful of every bite you take.
Diane: And that's what I'm working on, yes. Chewing--
John: Every--
Diane: Yes.
John: every time you chew each bite, you should be aware of it.
Diane: Yes.
John: Enjoy the intensity of taste.
Diane: Yes.
John: And once the intensity goes down, you stop. That's all you have to do.
Diane: Yeah. That's fascinating. Thank you so much, Dr. John. I'm going to get on and get your books right now as soon as we're done here. Thank you. To my family caregivers out there, you are the most important part of the caregiving equation. Without you, it all falls apart. So please learn to be gentle with yourself. Practice self-care every day because you are worth it.
